Thoughts on new Fishman SA330x

[The Bard Rocks]

As I recall the weight of my Bose L1 Compact is 27 lb - not sure where you got your figure. The Fishstick 220 was a bit heavier, but not that much more. Actually, the two are about the same by the time I add in a small mixer, which I need for the Bose but didn't feel I needed as much for the Fishman). I extensively compared the two a few years back (it's in the AG files somewhere) and thought both were very good - and finally went with the Bose as it complemented my voice a bit better. No regrets. The Bose definitely had better bass, but I don't get off on that much and allowed other things to sway my reasoning.

[Jshep1989]

I have been using an SA220 at least 3 times a week for 7 years now. I was going to order another to link together with mine before I saw the 330 was out.

A little info first. I play a Sigma dreadnought, a Martin GCPC4 grand auditorium, and a Lead 2 through this amp and I sing. I have to cut the low end out of my guitars almost entirely, so unless you have a cajon player or a bassist, I wouldn't think the new subwoofer is necessary. I actually had a bass player bring a small amp to a show to jam with me and he commented on how he couldn't get as good low end through his bass amp as I was. My 220 is starting to sound a little rough, which is to be expected after well over 1000 gigs, getting rained on unexpectedly at shows, Louisiana humidity in the summertime, and the fact that I'm kind of hard on my gear. I have no complaints. It has paid for itself over and over. I just about can't play a gig without someone commenting on how clean it sounds. I have used this as my rig for playing with a band too and still, clean, clear, and it cuts through. I am also the music director for a church that uses the bose L1 model 2 with 2 subs. At 3500 U.S. dollars it can't cimpart with the 220 tower. I ordered a 330 today and I can't wait to hear it.

Also, I saw some questions I'd like to address. It is the same weight as the 220. It is 330 watts (165 per channel without the expansion kit.)
I paid 1100 bucks new for my 220. If this is a bowed up version of what I have already, it's a steal. No doubt.

[Chriscom]

Originally Posted by Jshep1989

I have been using an SA220 at least 3 times a week for 7 years now. I was going to order another to link together with mine before I saw the 330 was out...

Thanks for these comments. The SA330x has jumped into contention for me because of its expandability. From what I've read, it shares much of the same quality of sticks like the Eon One/Pro and Bose L1 Compact, and since the sub is an add-on, I can use just the stick for small/small medium solo gigs which'll be most of my life but bring the sub for my keyboard-playing partner as needed.

(gonna have to pull the trigger soon since I'll likely have a solo gig in late October)

[Groberts]

Originally Posted by Jshep1989

I have been using an SA220 at least 3 times a week for 7 years now. I was going to order another to link together with mine before I saw the 330 was out.

A little info first. I play a Sigma dreadnought, a Martin GCPC4 grand auditorium, and a Lead 2 through this amp and I sing. I have to cut the low end out of my guitars almost entirely, so unless you have a cajon player or a bassist, I wouldn't think the new subwoofer is necessary. I actually had a bass player bring a small amp to a show to jam with me and he commented on how he couldn't get as good low end through his bass amp as I was. My 220 is starting to sound a little rough, which is to be expected after well over 1000 gigs, getting rained on unexpectedly at shows, Louisiana humidity in the summertime, and the fact that I'm kind of hard on my gear. I have no complaints. It has paid for itself over and over. I just about can't play a gig without someone commenting on how clean it sounds. I have used this as my rig for playing with a band too and still, clean, clear, and it cuts through. I am also the music director for a church that uses the bose L1 model 2 with 2 subs. At 3500 U.S. dollars it can't cimpart with the 220 tower. I ordered a 330 today and I can't wait to hear it.

Also, I saw some questions I'd like to address. It is the same weight as the 220. It is 330 watts (165 per channel without the expansion kit.)
I paid 1100 bucks new for my 220. If this is a bowed up version of what I have already, it's a steal. No doubt.

Let us know if the SA330x sounds like more of the same, or if it has any sonic improvements over your 220. Thanks!

[Fran Guidry]

Originally Posted by Jshep1989

I have been using an SA220 at least 3 times a week for 7 years now. I was going to order another to link together with mine before I saw the 330 was out.

A little info first. I play a Sigma dreadnought, a Martin GCPC4 grand auditorium, and a Lead 2 through this amp and I sing. I have to cut the low end out of my guitars almost entirely, so unless you have a cajon player or a bassist, I wouldn't think the new subwoofer is necessary. I actually had a bass player bring a small amp to a show to jam with me and he commented on how he couldn't get as good low end through his bass amp as I was. My 220 is starting to sound a little rough, which is to be expected after well over 1000 gigs, getting rained on unexpectedly at shows, Louisiana humidity in the summertime, and the fact that I'm kind of hard on my gear. I have no complaints. It has paid for itself over and over. I just about can't play a gig without someone commenting on how clean it sounds. I have used this as my rig for playing with a band too and still, clean, clear, and it cuts through. I am also the music director for a church that uses the bose L1 model 2 with 2 subs. At 3500 U.S. dollars it can't cimpart with the 220 tower. I ordered a 330 today and I can't wait to hear it.

Also, I saw some questions I'd like to address. It is the same weight as the 220. It is 330 watts (165 per channel without the expansion kit.)
I paid 1100 bucks new for my 220. If this is a bowed up version of what I have already, it's a steal. No doubt.

Welcome to the AGF.

Fran

[Groovekings]

After watching the proliferation of stick systems over the past couple years I am still amazed at how much manufacturers get people to " pay for convenience ". Example - two Yamaha Dbr 10's and a small mixer cost about $800 and will blow any stick system out of the water plus still only weigh little. I admit the all in one holy grail is an attractive concept and as I've gotten older I love the idea of the quick trip from the car and setup but the cost premium is crazy high. The manufacturers know all about our aging backs lol and charge accordingly. Shameless opportunism !

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by Groovekings

After watching the proliferation of stick systems over the past couple years I am still amazed at how much manufacturers get people to " pay for convenience ". Example - two Yamaha Dbr 10's and a small mixer cost about $800 and will blow any stick system out of the water plus still only weigh little. I admit the all in one holy grail is an attractive concept and as I've gotten older I love the idea of the quick trip from the car and setup but the cost premium is crazy high. The manufacturers know all about our aging backs lol and charge accordingly. Shameless opportunism !

I disagree.

I'm not the greatest fan of stick systems from a pure audiophile perspective, but I ended up using a Bose L1 Model II with a B2 bass and a T1 mixer. It's not the "best" sound I have ever achieved - but it fills a room better than any other system I have ever played through. It serves as a great monitor, and the audience at the back of the room hear what I'm playing, as do the audience at the front and the sides, without any variation in volume problems. The Yamaha's and a decent mixer can deliver a great sound - if you are in the right place to hear it. In real world situations, this means that a small percentage of your audience get a great sound, and the rest don't.

Oh - and the Bose system that I use needs more muscle power than "a quick trip" to the car! Sadly.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Groovekings

After watching the proliferation of stick systems over the past couple years I am still amazed at how much manufacturers get people to " pay for convenience ". Example - two Yamaha Dbr 10's and a small mixer cost about $800 and will blow any stick system out of the water plus still only weigh little. I admit the all in one holy grail is an attractive concept and as I've gotten older I love the idea of the quick trip from the car and setup but the cost premium is crazy high. The manufacturers know all about our aging backs lol and charge accordingly. Shameless opportunism !

It’s just physics. As a sound system manufacturer, if you want more sound from less weight, you need to pull a few rabbits out of your hat. As a consumer, if you want the best sound on a budget, then you focus on the conventional systems. I think the the major shift in people’s minds today is that they realize that they really just don’t need to be that loud. People in the audience who appreciate acoustic guitar and voice don’t want to listen to it at 115 dB. So, as a performer, why not also be light and convenient? There are several stick systems in the $800 range. Some require you to use an outboard mixer, and some have a mixer onboard. That said, Bose has a very nice system, but charges an arm and a leg for it. Of course, they also overcharge for every product they make. However, they are leaders in the audio category and people begrudgingly pay those prices to get the gear.

[leew3]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

It’s just physics. As a sound system manufacturer, if you want more sound from less weight, you need to pull a few rabbits out of your hat. As a consumer, if you want the best sound on a budget, then you focus on the conventional systems. I think the the major shift in people’s minds today is that they realize that they really just don’t need to be that loud. People in the audience who appreciate acoustic guitar and voice don’t want to listen to it at 115 dB. So, as a performer, why not also be light and convenient? There are several stick systems in the $800 range. Some require you to use an outboard mixer, and some have a mixer onboard. That said, Bose has a very nice system, but charges an arm and a leg for it. Of course, they also overcharge for every product they make. However, they are leaders in the audio category and people begrudgingly pay those prices to get the gear.

What Dave said! Our duo has a 'bigger' system for outdoor or larger gigs that is conventional in that it's Alto Troupers on stands, a singe sub and a mixer (thanks again for the subwoofer consult Dave). However, we find that for most indoor gigs an acoustic amp or two at very low volume (I run my Loudbox Artist with channel gains at 12 o'clock, Master at 9 o'clock) is plenty of volume. Our 'holy grail' threshold for a PA is that is sounds like us, but a bit louder. We've got the money for a line array system, but no need at present.

[Red Peters]

I bought the new Sa330x last December and I also bought the $149 Expander (its a 4 channel mixer) but I bought a Behringer Sub for $299 rather than the Fishman $550 sub. The Behringer is a one 12 sub with 500 watts and has more features than the Fishman and it's built very well. It works perfectly and changes everything for the Sa330x. I play out several times a week with this rig and it's usually with my guitar, vocals, bass player and drummer. On Thursday nights I play in an organ trio......Organ with key bass, drums and me on electric guitar doing jazz fusion. We use this system for just vocals in that situation.
I also own a Bose L1 system (24 speakers) with the B2 sub (2x10), and the Bose digital mixer. They both sound great but......the Fishman is louder and way easier to transport and set up! It gets all the gigs now! I highly recommend the Fishman Sa330x and you can use whatever powered sub you want. I would not change the Behringer sub I bought. It's very easy to carry and is huge sounding and twice the power of the Fishman Sub.......for half the price!!!!

[Akronman66]

Like many here I agree The prices of the "ADD ONS" Could be more competitive, that being stated I do like the 330X.

I love the ease of set up and has more than enough power for my needs. I did get the travel bag with the deal I got (the one with the wheels ,better protection etc.)

I really love the audio quality and features... much more convenient set up and tear down

tpw

[tonydean]

Hi guys. New to this great forum I want to talk about my new Fishman SA330x. I have the basic model without sub or mixer. I just can’t use it with my Cole Clark Angel 2 solid wood acoustic as the feedback issues are out of control. If I turn up the gain to half on the master and channel gain, I get terrible feedback. I turn down, then it’s way too quiet for even small gigs. I turn the feedback pot to tame the feedback, but it’s in at least 3 frequencies, and I just can’t use it live at the moment as it is just a problem. I feel like I can’t play at any moderate level without something feeding back. I’m thinking I’ll have to buy a feedback eliminator unit this week to tame 2-4 frequencies so I can use the Fishman again. Very frustrating as I don’t have any problems with a normal PA system.
Anyone else having trouble with the 330 with feedback issues?

[Chriscom]

I don't have an SA330x, but anyone else who does may wonder what kind of pickups you have in that guitar, for starters. I read a description on an ebay listing but it was pretty vague. Also, this may be obvious, but I assume you've been able to play it through out PAs/amps without this problem. (edit, sorry, OP stated that)

I'm interested because I have a Bose L1 Compact but have had an eye on the 330x for a long time. Truth be told I can feedback fairly easily with the Compact at home--some have said this is because of the small enclosed space--and have to be sure to get my guitar (& mic) out of the line of fire sometimes.

[Per Burström]

Just got home after getting myself a SA330X + the SA Subwoofer (and tripod) at a really good price: it was a demo unit bought from a music store in Stockholm where they were closing the "outlet" department of the store. I paid around 5500 SEK, that is less than you would pay for a new S1 Pro (without the battery pack)... so I think that was a really good price!

Anyway, I just started experimenting with it. When it comes to feedback, there's no problem for the guitar, even with the guitar at close distance to the SA330X. Obviously a vocal microphone is more prone for feedback, especially with my M3 condenser.

I also have a Perform-VG, but I haven't tried that yet to compare the reverbs, feedback resistance etc.

Those of you that use the SA330X live, where do you place it? Behind you? What kind of vocal microphone do you use?

Anyone using a separate montitor together with the SA330X? Any recommendation?


Thanks!
/Per

[Guitaurman]

Originally Posted by Per Burström

Just got home after getting myself a SA330X + the SA Subwoofer (and tripod) at a really good price: it was a demo unit bought from a music store in Stockholm where they were closing the "outlet" department of the store. I paid around 5500 SEK, that is less than you would pay for a new S1 Pro (without the battery pack)... so I think that was a really good price!

Anyway, I just started experimenting with it. When it comes to feedback, there's no problem for the guitar, even with the guitar at close distance to the SA330X. Obviously a vocal microphone is more prone for feedback, especially with my M3 condenser.

I also have a Perform-VG, but I haven't tried that yet to compare the reverbs, feedback resistance etc.

Those of you that use the SA330X live, where do you place it? Behind you? What kind of vocal microphone do you use?

Anyone using a separate montitor together with the SA330X? Any recommendation?


Thanks!
/Per

I use a SA330 by itself, no sub, for solo gigs often. I try to get it to one side, usually the left, and slightly behind me. I usually use my Shure Beta 58 mic. At times I'll use an old A.T.M. 41a, or a Shure SM58. I don't use or need a separate monitor. I run one of several guitars and the vocals through a TC Helicon Play Acpustic. I don't have vocal feedback problems ever. Occasionally I'll get a bit of low frequency feedback from a guitar, but that is easily dialed out with the notch filter or phase reversal button.

I love this thing. I have a bigger PA system, A Yamaha mixer and two QSC K 10.2 speakers on USS stands, but the Fishman sounds great, is really portable, and the integrated mixer does the job very well. It's powerful enough for 90% of the places I play. That mixer is the reason I got the Fishman over the offerings from Bose and JBL.