What Makes A Great Pick Great? Is It Science or Smoke & Mirrors?

[stringjunky]

Originally Posted by Skip Ellis

I guess there isn't a difference - a pick is a pick. I'd really like to see/hear a double blind listening test using boutique picks against regular picks with non-musicians, i.e. audience members doing the judging.

I don't have a chip on my shoulder but I do lack patience when being bombarded by people telling me that something is great when I fail to see or hear evidence of the so called greatness. Are these people better listeners than me? Probably not. Are they better musicians than me? Maybe, maybe not - it's all subjective just like tone. It upsets me to be talked down to because I can't hear a tonal difference that may or may not exist outside an oscilloscope. 'Nuf said.

We each hear what we hear and can only make choices based that, others will hear more or less than we do. Just because we might not sense something doesn't mean others don't. The other thing that's not mentioned is tactility and how the string feels through the pick when you strike it and the properties of a material can have very notable effect on the conduction of vibrations when you come off the string. There's no better or worse, it's what feels right to you in any given pick material or style.That's one quality that someone will have difficulty communicating to others very well but it's there. How do you describe the qualities of touch? The pick connects you to the guitar; that brief contact between string and pick is important to how you respond to the tactile feedback from striking the string and what follows next. It may not matter to the audience but it could matter to the player. Or am I talking out of my derriere?

[adaw2821]

Originally Posted by Skip Ellis

I don't have a chip on my shoulder but I do lack patience when being bombarded by people telling me that something is great when I fail to see or hear evidence of the so called greatness. Are these people better listeners than me? Probably not. Are they better musicians than me? Maybe, maybe not - it's all subjective just like tone. It upsets me to be talked down to because I can't hear a tonal difference that may or may not exist outside an oscilloscope. 'Nuf said.

I'm sure no more than how some here feel to basically being told what they hear is in their head. I definitely see your point and what suits you suits you and that's fine. I can definitely tell the difference in different thickness and materials and I'm not even using any picks that cost more than a couple bucks.

On a side note I will be there that the difference percieved by a listener is not as dramatic as what I hear playing. One of the biggest to me being the clicking of the pick which listeners can't hear anyway.

[HHP]

There's a lot to picks beyond how they sound. How much slippage you get when gripping the pick, the comfort level you have in holding the pick. Does the pick feel like part of your hand that you don't really think about any more than you think about moving your fingers.

Picks are also the only part of the whole guitar signal chain that can be micro-adjusted to give you the sound you want. Very small changes in the pick can deliver a brighter or darker sound, more or less volume,more clarity or more warmth. Can't make those small changes by switching strings, reworking the bracing, or re-configuring a set-up. You can easily do it with a pick regardless of whether it is a $0.50 pick or a $50.00 pick.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by stringjunky62

We each hear what we hear and can only make choices based that, others will hear more or less than we do. Just because we might not sense something doesn't mean others don't. The other thing that's not mentioned is tactility and how the string feels through the pick when you strike it and the properties of a material can have very notable effect on the conduction of vibrations when you come off the string. There's no better or worse, it's what feels right to you in any given pick material or style.That's one quality that someone will have difficulty communicating to others very well but it's there. How do you describe the qualities of touch? The pick connects you to the guitar; that brief contact between string and pick is important to how you respond to the tactile feedback from striking the string and what follows next. It may not matter to the audience but it could matter to the player. Or am I talking out of my derriere?

Yes, it's hard to put into words, but the proof is in the putting, as they say. One's feel and tone is a very personal thing, different for almost every player.

scott memmer

[stringjunky]

Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks

Yes, it's hard to put into words, but the proof is in the putting, as they say. One's feel and tone is a very personal thing, different for almost every player.

scott memmer

If picks didn't matter we would all have the same pick. I call them 'plectrums' at home, actually, or 'plec'..

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by stringjunky62

If picks didn't matter we would all have the same pick. I call them 'plectrums' at home, actually, or 'plec'..

I agree, but as the OP here my intent was not to sell anything but merely to inform or suggest to people why certain materials might consistently be noted by advanced players as offering superior tone and performance. No one has to agree, and in fact it makes it a more lively discussion if people tell me I'm full of it.

scott memmer

[Wasper]

Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks

The experience is in the playing.
1) Deeper, richer, tighter base
2) A marked improvement in warmth and tone
3) Dramatically less pick noise
4) Softer highs that are balanced and rounded, but not muted
5) Much improved "release" off the strings (that's the self-lubricating thing)
6) Better grip

scott

I would have to agree with this. I'm a machinist who works in the semiconductor industry. We work with these dupont materails (along with other specialty materials) daily.

I read a thread on the BlueChip picks a while ago and realized that they were using a form of Vespel (trade name for the Dupont material they use). Well, wouldn't you know, we stock tons of different types of Vespel and have lots of scrap pieces laying around. So, I brought in some pick shapes that I like and machined a couple of picks of varying sizes. My finding when comparing to my other picks at home mirrored Scott's assessment above.

[HHP]

Different players put different demands on their picks and they have varying expectations. For me, putting some attention into picks has definitely improved my playing. Its made a staggering difference in playing mandolin.

They don't have to cost much, but they have to be configured properly either by the maker or me.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by Wasper

I would have to agree with this. I'm a machinist who works in the semiconductor industry. We work with these dupont materails (along with other specialty materials) daily.

I read a thread on the BlueChip picks a while ago and realized that they were using a form of Vespel (trade name for the Dupont material they use). Well, wouldn't you know, we stock tons of different types of Vespel and have lots of scrap pieces laying around. So, I brought in some pick shapes that I like and machined a couple of picks of varying sizes. My finding when comparing to my other picks at home mirrored Scott's assessment above.

Wasper, as someone who has also worked intimately with this material, I appreciate your corroboration. Folks don't realize how difficult this stuff is to work with. I'm sure you can confirm how tough it is on CNC blades and the like. It's an absolute bear to machine.

Your story is almost identical to mine. I bought a tiny piece of that brown stuff, not much bigger than my thumb, for $100, cuz I'm cheap and wanted to make my own. Here I am three years later. What the heck am I doing in the guitar business?!

sm

[Hyoung]

Confirmation bias is a real issue. Here is how I tried to get past that.

I took a shot on one of the charmed life picks to see if there was something there (there). My boy and I sat across from each other and went back and forth with a standard nylon pick and the new one on trial. Each of us played both picks, getting to listen as well as play. He is more frugal than me. At the end we both agreed there was a noticeable difference/improvement with the upmarket pick. I can guarantee he would not have gone for the more expensive pick if he did not hear the difference like I did. And now I have started on a journey of trying different picks and it is a lot of fun as well as interesting. Some of them seem to match better with a specific guitar (e.g. 12-string or nylon). Thanks to Scott for starting this cool trip! Holland.

[Authentic]

Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks

my intent was not to sell anything... I'm full of it.

Come on, what do you take us for? But I don't blame you, if I was running a business, I, too, would constantly make my brand name as visible as possible, as any publicity is good publicity... Whether that is through bumping old threads, creating topoics "unrelated to my business," claiming that because I refer to my competitors I am not promoting myself... At the end of the day, if you've got the goods to back it up, then the minor annoyance suffered by some from the constant promotion doesn't really matter, and as a sponsor, you have every right to. I just think being upfront about it would make people more comfortable about it. Kind of like that Gravity Picks guy who doesn't try to claim that he's not promoting his stuff. It is what it is.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by Authentic

Come on, what do you take us for? But I don't blame you, if I was running a business, I, too, would constantly make my brand name as visible as possible, as any publicity is good publicity... Whether that is through bumping old threads, creating topoics "unrelated to my business," claiming that because I refer to my competitors I am not promoting myself... At the end of the day, if you've got the goods to back it up, then the minor annoyance suffered by some from the constant promotion doesn't really matter, and as a sponsor, you have every right to. I just think being upfront about it would make people more comfortable about it. Kind of like that Gravity Picks guy who doesn't try to claim that he's not promoting his stuff. It is what it is.

I respect you saying that, and sure, I participate in a lot of pick threads, no secret there. I'm actually more interested, though, in promoting the entire category. Or you know my history on AGF, I may be the only sponsor that consistently recommends other people's products. This is not just for show, for public consumption.

[Charmed Life Picks]

[QUOTE=Charmed Life Picks;5424254]I respect you saying that, and sure, I participate in a lot of pick threads, no secret there. I'm actually more interested, though, in promoting the entire category. If you know my history on AGF, I may be the only sponsor on here that consistently recommends other people's products. Every day. Actually this is not for show or for some PR points, but because my profession is a teacher and I enjoy empowering people with knowledge to make their own decisions.

For me, though, there's a more important issue: honesty and fair dealing. In this world we are given only one reputation, to squander or protect as we will. Many years ago I was in sales in the high-end car business, and I saw salespeople on every side of me lie through their teeth to their customers. Here's the funny part: From a purely pragmatic perspective, honesty is the best policy. These guys all around me lying to their customers? They had to remember what lie they told to which customer. I realized that if I just told the same story to everyone -- the truth -- I didn't have to file lies in different parts of my brain for different customers. Problem solved.

There are a lot of great pick products on the marketplace. We're just happy to be a part of the conversation.

thanks,
sm

[Charmed Life Picks]

This discussion, which originally appeared on the main board, has been moved to Marketplace. Feel free to comment. I've done a TON of research about industrial plastics, so also feel free to ask me any questions you want.

be well,
scott