M/Bear And Aura Vs Pendulum SPS1?

[Vikki]

I know the Pendulum Audio SPS1 has been "the unit" to get for blending pickups for a few years now and i wonder how much better the sound is compared to a Raven Labs PMB 1? But has the Mamma and Aura really made the Pendulum a thing of the past?
Vikki(uk)

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Vikki

I know the Pendulum Audio SPS1 has been "the unit" to get for blending pickups for a few years now and i wonder how much better the sound is compared to a Raven Labs PMB 1? But has the Mamma and Aura really made the Pendulum a thing of the past?
Vikki(uk)

Hi Vikki...
As expected the Pendulum would be a much better preamp/blender - and it should be at 5 times the cost of a PMB-I or PMB-II and being handbuilt.

I don't believe simulators or emulators will replace traditional preamps any time soon.

[Crowder]

My feeling is that having the right pickup for your instrument, and having it installed properly, are more important than what preamp you use. This assumes that we're talking about preamps of the quality that you mentioned, not cheap junk.

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by Vikki

I know the Pendulum Audio SPS1 has been "the unit" to get for blending pickups for a few years now and i wonder how much better the sound is compared to a Raven Labs PMB 1? But has the Mamma and Aura really made the Pendulum a thing of the past?
Vikki(uk)

The devices aren't comparable The Mamma Bear and Aura devices have preamps that aren't in the same league as the Pendulum's but unlike the Pendulum, they contain digital signal processors which are only useful with certain types of pickups such as under saddle piezoelectric ones.

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by Vikki

I know the Pendulum Audio SPS1 has been "the unit" to get for blending pickups for a few years now and i wonder how much better the sound is compared to a Raven Labs PMB 1?
Vikki(uk)

The SPS-1 has been around since 1993. It's been "the unit" for 15 years, 20 years if you include its single channel ancestor, the HZ10 SE. Not many folks have experience with both the SPS-1 and the Raven Labs PMB (I or II). I've owned both. The PMB II is an excellent dual source blender, and always will be. Indeed, since it was discontinued used prices have increased and a used PMB II often sells for what a new one cost a few years ago (about $300).

To my mind, the D-TAR Solstice has taken the place of the PMB II as the best sonic performance/cost value product available these days, which was previously held (before the PMB and Solstice) by the Rane AP-13 (stay tuned - I'm having Jim Williams do a set of modifications to a used AP-13 I recently picked up - different op amps, capacitor swaps, power supply/regulation improvements - We'll see, but I suspect a decent improvement to this old workhorse - the honk will be gone).

Both the PMB and Solstice can produce an excellent sound - pleasing and convincing. They each have sufficient eq available (3 band graphic eq for each channel - with the PMB having non-modifiable but variable "Q" depending on whether you are cutting or boosting eq) to adjust to a variety of situations. Of course, much depends on the two sources (pickup and/or mic choices) and personal preferences.

Sonically, the SPS-1 is simply at another level. Superlatives abound, but descriptions like "world class", "Oh my god" and "incredible" come to mind. It's not that the PMB or Solstice sound bad - just the opposite - they sound very very good indeed. It's just that the SPS-1 sounds so much better - if that is even possible (it is). Now the difference will be less noticeable in many situations - such as when the signal is mixed with numerous other feeds, when the remainder of the signal chain is not capable of being accurate and authentic in the first instance or when the sources are problematic or leave something to be desired. Although anecdotal, to my ears, the difference is profound (using the same guitar, pickups, power amp, speakers, etc.). It's analogous to the difference between a Subaru and an S=-Class Mercedes. The Subaru is a wonderful vehicle, and very popular. But the Mercedes is just at another level.

But that's not all there is to it. Functionally (and leaving aside sonics), the SPS-1 is unrivaled. While you can find SPS-1 features in many other products, you will not find any single product that has the wealth of features that the SPS-1 has (the Rane AP-13 is close feature-wise, but unfortuantely is not at the same level sonically, again stay tuned). There are about two dozen features the SPS-1 has that most other products do not have, or only have but a few. I'm not going to list them all, but a few examples are:

1) +4dBu operation
2) +-24 volt rails (48v operation - talk about headroom), 70dB of total gain available per channel
3) 120v toroidal power supply
4) 48v balanced phantom power and 12v unbalanced T-power (you can use any condenser microphone ever made with it, live or in the studio)
5) Capable of handling any dual source combination (sbt, ust, mag, internal mic, external mic)
6) True stereo mixing bus
7) Stereo headphone amp
8) Two function footswitch
9) Separate 48v preamp module which plugs into the guitar (solving all DI, impedance, signal loss issues and providing immediate access to volume and blend controls)
10) 3 fully parametric and eq filters for each channel, one of which (for each channel) can serve as a notch filter.
11) Compliance limiter (which incidentally solves the K&K standard/mini input impedance issue cold)
12) Channel inserts, line ins, line outs, stereo effects loop (with a mix switch (50% or 100%)
13) Polarity reverse for between channels and between stereo output and downstream (i.e., speakers).
14) Monitor outs (stereo), with channel 1 and no effects "only" switch, and separate volume control.
15) Two level gain LEDs per channel.

I could go on. My point is that functionally, the SPS-1 is a virtual Swiss Army knife of meaningful functional features, equally capable live or in the studio, and is a no-compromise build which has everything to do with its sonic excellence and durability.

On the other hand, most folks are fine with a Baggs PARI DI, a Fishman barn door unit or what any of a number of acoustic amps provide. McDonald's, Wendy's and Burger King hamburgers are also most common and popular.

Originally Posted by Vikki

But has the Mamma and Aura really made the Pendulum a thing of the past?
Vikki(uk)

These products have been developed in an effort to improve the sound of a UST, which to many ears, including mine, simply suck to begin with. Silk purse/sow's ear - and all that. They have succeeded in improving the "UST" sound, quite a bit actually. They are one trick ponies, and built to an "acceptable" (and cheap) price point (although the Mama Bear at least is a decent build). Give me a UST and external or internal condenser mic, along with a SPS-1, any day of the week. No digital artifacts, no cheesy high end, no faux lower mids.

Still, there is promise with the digital simulators. Other, much better financed companies have attempted to digitally emulate things - instruments, the human voice, reverbs, compressors, etc. They are getting better and better at it as time passes (reverb is basically already there), and they have been doing so for much longer than Fishman or D-TAR. All Fishman and D-TAR have to do is continue to develop and refine what they are doing digitally and surround their digital technology with better analog circuitry (or unbundle their IP and allow it to be used with and DAW - which is what nearly all other developers do). Perhaps in 5 years they may arrive at some sort of sonic excellence. Hasn't happened yet.

[toddfields@mac.]

Hi there...great stuff on the Pendulum...
I tried to e-mail you directly, but don't think it made it so...
I'm a professional player...have an SPS-1 and for some reason the K&K pure mini sounds "right" when I go through the line in on a channel after going through their K&K pre...., but when I use the Pendulum pre that goes at the end of the guitar, I turn the trim pot all the way down and it still "clips" out a bit...as well as having a little more artificial sounding highs...
Any thoughts??
Thanks SO much!!!
Todd

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by toddfields@mac.

Hi there...great stuff on the Pendulum...
I tried to e-mail you directly, but don't think it made it so...
I'm a professional player...have an SPS-1 and for some reason the K&K pure mini sounds "right" when I go through the line in on a channel after going through their K&K pre...., but when I use the Pendulum pre that goes at the end of the guitar, I turn the trim pot all the way down and it still "clips" out a bit...as well as having a little more artificial sounding highs...
Any thoughts??
Thanks SO much!!!
Todd

There are two recessed gain controls (i.e., trim pots) for each channel. One is on the preamp module (one for each channel if you have a two channel module). The other is on the back of the rack unit (one for each channel). Both recessed gain controls need to be set. I guessing here, but I suspect you have set the one on the preamp module but not the one on the back of the rack unit.

There's simply no way a K&K mini pickup signal can overload the Pendulum, unless the controls are not set properly. The preamp module can accept a signal (before overloading) of +15.5 dBu (that's 4.6 v RMS). Just to put things in perspective, the preamp module alone can handle as an input signal the output signal of a Raven Labs PMB II (with the volume controls turned to about 3/4). The main rack unit can handle even more. The K&K mini nominal output signal is measured in millivolts.

As to the treble response, perhaps check it again once you get the gain staging right. The only other thing I can think of is some defect in the unit.

[Vikki]

So do you guys think the best amplified acoustic sound is still with a couple of quality pickups and an SPS1 and quality pa, rather than the digital Mamma bear or Aura route?
Regards
Vikki(uk)

[guitaniac]

Vikki,

I have the vague recollection that James Taylor quit using an SP1 in favor of an Aura floor preamp (used with custom sound images). If that's accurate, it surely isn't just a matter of sacrificing quality for convenience.

Now that Fishman is back from holiday, perhaps Joe B. will weigh in.


BTW, Vikki, have you had a chance to check out Shadow's Sonic DoublePlay system yet. I've mentioned before that Lakewood is now using the DoublePlay as their standard pickup system. (I recall that you play a Lakewood.) Its supposedly a very flexible system which blends an inobtrusive tiny mag (which mounts at the end of the fretboard and doesn't block the soundhole or weigh down the top) with a relatively (as USTs go) top sensitive UST. Its worth noting that Teja Gerken gave the DoublePlay a very favorable review in the January Acoustic Guitar.

Gary

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by Vikki

So do you guys think the best amplified acoustic sound is still with a couple of quality pickups and an SPS1 and quality pa, rather than the digital Mamma bear or Aura route?
Regards
Vikki(uk)

Not necessarily. If one were trying to amplify a guitar having an under-saddle, piezoelectric pickup, the benefits of the Mamma Bear/Aura signal processing might outweigh the superiority of the Pendulum circuitry and controls. If one's guitar has sound board pickups or a combination which includes an internal microphone, then the Pendulum would be the best choice.

[rmyAddison]

To get the full benefit of a pro level piece like the Pendulum, the entire "package" (guitar, mikes, amplification, speakers, etc.) needs to be of the same quality, which may not always be the situation. Large condensors are wonderful but you can't use them in many live situations, as an example.

The Pendulum is superior but Auras and other similar products have their place. My stage chain is very different from my recording setup. My stage guitar has electronics, my others don't even have guitar straps. Suit the tool to the task........

I need to audition a Pendulum, but I don't know whether I would use it "live"

[rainsong]

Originally Posted by rmyAddison

To get the full benefit of a pro level piece like the Pendulum, the entire "package" (guitar, mikes, amplification, speakers, etc.) needs to be of the same quality, which may not always be the situation.

Exactly, a $1500 preamp would probably not change things much running through a $1000-2000 sound system. It does strike me as interesting about James Taylor giving up his SPS for an Aura. Do you suppose Fishman hopped up his unit with higher end electronics than the average consumer gets?

[guitaniac]

rainsong,

While I doubt that James Taylor is using a hot-rodded Aura, it wouldn't surprise me if Joe put a little extra time and attention into creating and testing the custom sound images which he's using. I'm not being cynical or critical with that observation, however. One wouldn't (fairly) expect celebrity treatment for $200, or whatever the current cost of custom sound images is.

Gary

[Vikki]

Thanks for your thoughts everyone.........
I'd noticed just one of the SPS1's for sale secondhand in the u.k in the last few years, at quite a premium price, it just made me wonder how good they were. There's been quite a few Aura blenders for sale on the second hand market but there's not much of a return policy in the uk so i didn't want to just dive in, they also sell for quite a premium price over here.
Gary i've seen the Sonic system advertised on the Lakewood guitars site but i have to be honest and say i haven't seen a Lakewood guitar for sale in the shops here for at least 18 months, they seem to have altered their main dealer, looking at the new uk price the Lakewoods seem to have risen dramatically in price since i purchased my m32.
I did debate if it was worth buying the Shadow nanomag and install it along with the Wavelength i have in the M32 at present, i was going to mail Shadow and ask if the preamp would run off 18volts and see if the Wavelength voltage multiplier would run both the preamps to save on having more batteries in the guitar.
Vikki(uk)

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by Vikki

So do you guys think the best amplified acoustic sound is still with a couple of quality pickups and an SPS1 and quality pa, rather than the digital Mamma bear or Aura route?
Regards
Vikki(uk)

Yes. But a Pendulum isn't really needed or even desirable in many many situations. It wouldn't make much sense to invest in a SPS-1 unless you were dual sourcing to begin with and wanted to take advantage of it's studio capabilities, nor does one make much sense if the guitar is buried in a band's mix. For a single performer player/singer (needing a pickup input and a mic input for vocals), an SPS-1 functionally isn't very different from the function of most two channel acoustic amps, and the sonic improvements might not be that important.

You'll just have to take the opportunity to try one if you ever get that opportunity. There are only a few thousand of them around. Dunno how many have made it to the UK.

I can tell you from personal experience that a UST/external SD condenser mic through a SPS-1 sounds much better than a UST through any of the digital modelers, and (perhaps more importantly) the behavior is more akin to an unplugged setting (i.e., dynamic, sustain, transient responses).