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Old 11-17-2010, 08:07 AM
stratt2828 stratt2828 is offline
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Default Signal chain connection question

Good Day Everyone,

I meant SIGNAL chain...doh! Can't seem to edit the title/subject line? (Edit: Forensicguy: I edited it for you. )

Anyway...

I'm struggling a bit with the best way to connect my gear. I have a Fishman Soloamp, a Boss RC-20XL looper, a Zoom H4N and a Xenyx 1202 FX mixer (along with a Taylor DN3 with onboard preamp). I do not have any other effects pedals at the moment. The mixer has a useable array of reverbs, chorus and delays but no instrument in, just mic/line). I want to use effects prior to the signal hitting the looper obviously. I'm contemplating some effects pedals or a multieffects pedalboard. My goal is to be able to use a setup with the looper and effects with the Soloamp and also sometimes I'd like to be able to not use the Soloamp and have the same capabilities, particularly for recording to the Zoom. Ideally, I would like to be able to control effects with my foot while playing. I also have FX on the Zoom that I'm wondering if I could use in my signal chain. Even though the Soloamp has some reverb, I would like reverb and other effects prior to hitting the looper and then send the end result to either the PA or the Zoom (or mixer to listen to with headphones). Wondering what you think I should be focusing on and how to proceed? Thanks a bunch.
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Taylor DN3
Fender Deluxe Players Strat
Boss BR 1600CD
Zoom H4n
Dell XPS M1640
Audio-Technica ATH-M50 Monitor Headphones

Last edited by Forensicguy; 11-17-2010 at 10:20 AM. Reason: spelling error
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Old 11-17-2010, 08:25 AM
colinmac colinmac is offline
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I don't think there's anything complex in what you are after. Unless I'm missing something, you would just have:

[guitar] --> [effects block] --> [looper] --> [soloamp or H4N]

You could use the mixer as the effects block, feeding the looper from the mixer's main output, and any additional effects pedals you want could be put in the mixer's effects loop. The mixer, of course, doesn't have foot controls so you might be better just getting some pedals for this.

In passing, you said the mixer has no 'instrument in'; the 'line in' on each channel is what you use.
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Old 11-17-2010, 08:32 AM
stratt2828 stratt2828 is offline
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Hi colinmac and thanks,

I appreciate the response. I was under the impression that the line in on the Xenyx would be a different signal level for the acoustic for some reason. No degradation of signal? Should be plenty clean and strong right? Of course, as you say, with the board there is no foot control, so I would have to manipulate effects setting by hand. The effects on the Zoom aren't an option as it is very menu driven and l am not loking for that. Now I'm thinking if I acquire an individual pedal or two I could also utilize some of the effects on the mixer as you said.
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Taylor DN3
Fender Deluxe Players Strat
Boss BR 1600CD
Zoom H4n
Dell XPS M1640
Audio-Technica ATH-M50 Monitor Headphones
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Old 11-17-2010, 08:56 AM
colinmac colinmac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stratt2828 View Post
I was under the impression that the line in on the Xenyx would be a different signal level for the acoustic for some reason. No degradation of signal? Should be plenty clean and strong right?
It will work fine. The preamp in the guitar does the job of taking the miniscule signal from the pickup and cranking it up to 'line level', which is what 'line in' refers to. You'll still need to fine-tune the level with the gain control but the line in is intended to take the output from preamps, keyboards, effects units, etc.
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Old 11-17-2010, 09:56 AM
stratt2828 stratt2828 is offline
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Forgot to ask....If I choose to not use the PA or Zoom...could I somehow route the looper back into a separate mixer input so I could utilize the mixers headphone jack? I hate using the headphone jack on the Zoom, even though my monitoring headphones have both 1/8 and 1/4 connection capabilities, I don't like how the weight of the headphone cable pulls out the headphone jack on the Zoom. Also, I guess I'm now wondering if the looper can be used as some kind of effects send unit from the mixer so I can utilize my vocals on the looper as well. So I would plug both mic and guitar into the mixer, use effects as needed, send signal to looper, return signal to mixer for headphone monitoring. What do you think? I'm sure I could still then go out to Zoom or PA?
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Jody in NH


Taylor DN3
Fender Deluxe Players Strat
Boss BR 1600CD
Zoom H4n
Dell XPS M1640
Audio-Technica ATH-M50 Monitor Headphones

Last edited by stratt2828; 11-17-2010 at 09:56 AM. Reason: sp.
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Old 11-17-2010, 10:35 AM
colinmac colinmac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stratt2828 View Post
If I choose to not use the PA or Zoom...could I somehow route the looper back into a separate mixer input so I could utilize the mixers headphone jack?

...

Also, I guess I'm now wondering if the looper can be used as some kind of effects send unit from the mixer so I can utilize my vocals on the looper as well. So I would plug both mic and guitar into the mixer, use effects as needed, send signal to looper, return signal to mixer for headphone monitoring. What do you think? I'm sure I could still then go out to Zoom or PA?
I have never used a looper so I'm going to make some assumptions. Also it's a while since I've used a mixer in any depth, so I'm going to assume that the FX send on your mixer doesn't affect the signal level on the sending channel.

If you are feeding the looper from the mixer then the looper's output will be [original signal] + [looped sample]. When that is fed back to the mixer then the original signal is still on the mixer so the result would be [original signal from channel] + [original signal from looper] + [looped sample]. So you would end up with twice as much original signal as you started with, and the balance between the guitar and the looped sample would be wrong.

On a mixer with more features then you would take the original guitar signal from a pre-fader part of the channel on the mixer and feed that to the looper, while having the fader right down so that the original signal does not get into the main mix.

So you can do what you described, kind of, but I think it'll sound a bit wrong. Basically the mixer doesn't really have the capability to do that kind of configuration properly. Unless, of course, you can configure the looper so that it doesn't actually send the input signal to the output - I don't think your looper can do that though.

My aged and basic Behringer MX802A, by contrast, has both pre- and post-fader aux sends, so I could route a channel to the aux bus (essentially like an FX loop) while also removing it from the main mix, so that when the 'wet' signal comes back then it doesn't get mixed with the original 'dry' signal. I guess they thought this wasn't worth keeping in the newer budget mixers.
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Old 11-17-2010, 10:38 AM
stratt2828 stratt2828 is offline
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Exactly what I was thinking. Thanks very much for your responses.
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Jody in NH


Taylor DN3
Fender Deluxe Players Strat
Boss BR 1600CD
Zoom H4n
Dell XPS M1640
Audio-Technica ATH-M50 Monitor Headphones
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  #8  
Old 11-17-2010, 01:00 PM
stratt2828 stratt2828 is offline
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Is it me or are the reverbs on the Zoom H4N less than desireable? Maybe I'm just not doing something right. I want a reverb sound similar to the reverb on my Xenyx 1202FX mixer, but I want to be able to use the built-in condensers on the Zoom H4N. Is there any way to use the built-in condensers on the Zoom, route the signal to the Xenyx mixer for effects, then send the signal back to the Zoom for recording? Can someone steer me on how to adjust the Zoom's reverb to sound more lush? Also, I often record in STEREO mode with no access to onboard effects on the Zoom. The most important thing for me is using the built in condenser's on the Zoom (as opposed to an SM58 for an acoustic guitar and vocals) and have access to a nicer reverb than what I'm hearing on the Zoom. Any thoughts on this?
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Jody in NH


Taylor DN3
Fender Deluxe Players Strat
Boss BR 1600CD
Zoom H4n
Dell XPS M1640
Audio-Technica ATH-M50 Monitor Headphones
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