Help recording guitar and vocals in Garageband

[gtonesine]

I have garageband and a apogee jam that I use to as a DI for guitar to use with gargeband . I usually use earbuds to practice guitar and am just starting to record what I am playing. I would like to use a mic to add vocals , I was thinkingof getting a basic condenser mike for vocals , I have some decent sony headphones to monitor with. My question is what equipment to get the signal in to my mac do I need for the microphone ? I know that a mic preamp is usually needed , but what digital in would I need ? I have seen apogee duet recommended , not quite sure if this is the way to go, unless the DI is very cheap I would like to get something that could be used in the future for more advanced recording , once I get more proficient with garageband to move up to Logic or Pro Tools , and be able to record multiple instruments , ie acoustic guitar , electric guitar , bass, drums and vocals ,
but for right now : (1) be able to practice guitar and vocals with headphones/monitor , (2) be able to record guitar and vocals , simultaneous or separate tracks

[Joseph Hanna]

You can get an Audio Technica 2020 usb mic for $120.00 or so (excluding a stand ect). Easy peasy and done.

[gtonesine]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

You can get an Audio Technica 2020 usb mic for $120.00 or so (excluding a stand ect). Easy peasy and done.

Joesph,

That seems really good , it's the next step of recording with more sophisticated DAW software and a D/A interface. I have read that it is better to get a condenser microphone that uses XLR cable if I want to do higher quality recording. I would spend more upfront to have some thing that would be usable with higher bit rate and sampling (if that is correct ). It does of course take the easy peasy out of it. Just trying to get an overall picture of the signal chain from guitar, instruments and vocals to finished recording . But your suggestion is very appealing and is from a pro . I do appreciate it very much.

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by gtonesine

I have read that it is better to get a condenser microphone that uses XLR cable if I want to do higher quality recording.

Naw....just not true. The 2020 USB is better than you and I are at recording. If it were me I'd get the 2020 or even the Apogee. I'd plug in and get to work on all the intangibles like your fundamentals, your technique, your room, your mixing, your playing, your DAW....ect. It's a great mic and it's only limitation (within reason) is the pilot in command. You and I. It may in fact be (for some) all they ever need and more.

Originally Posted by gtonesine

I would spend more upfront to have some thing that would be usable with higher bit rate and sampling (if that is correct ).

No. Spend money when the time is right. If you invest in all the correct elements first (the blood sweat and tears part, which happens to be monetarily free) the rest will follow and you'll know what and when to spend your money on upgrades. At this stage of the game you simply must believe that throwing money at things will never (can never) "buy" you great audio. Equipment these days is beyond mind bogglingly great. The AT 2020 is capable of more than the rest of our home recording world is up for. Get that (or something similar) and patiently "work" from there.

Here of course is my disclaimer. I'm aware this'll tick some people off and they'll buck this sentiment like a Denver Bronco. Take this advice with a grain of salt. My experience tells me the above advice is solid. I'll stand by that with utmost confidence!

I should add an addendum to this: All of the above is applicable if in fact your singular goal is to work towards great sonics. There are some that love gear and have the expendable income to explore that new gear and further love that whole process. Absolutely nothing, nothing wrong with that. There are a lot worse hobby pursuits out there that cost a whole lot more. The Los Angeles Ducati riding crowd comes to mind painfully and quickly as more expensive This post is not to disparage those that love to hunt gear. I get that. If you happen to be one of those guys the AT 2020 USB is decidedly not a Holy Grail type mic, and you'd do well to start researching the heavier hitters if indeed that's your goal!

[gtonesine]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

Naw....just not true. The 2020 USB is better than you and I are at recording. If it were me I'd get the 2020 or even the Apogee. I'd plug in and get to work on all the intangibles like your fundamentals, your technique, your room, your mixing, your playing, your DAW....ect. It's a great mic and it's only limitation (within reason) is the pilot in command. You and I. It may in fact be (for some) all they ever need and more.



No. Spend money when the time is right. If you invest in all the correct elements first (the blood sweat and tears part, which happens to be monetarily free) the rest will follow and you'll know what and when to spend your money on upgrades. At this stage of the game you simply must believe that throwing money at things will never (can never) "buy" you great audio. Equipment these days is beyond mind bogglingly great. The AT 2020 is capable of more than the rest of our home recording world is up for. Get that (or something similar) and patiently "work" from there.

Here of course is my disclaimer. I'm aware this'll tick some people off and they'll buck this sentiment like a Denver Bronco. Take this advice with a grain of salt. My experience tells me the above advice is solid. I'll stand by that with utmost confidence!

I should add an addendum to this: All of the above is applicable if in fact your singular goal is to work towards great sonics. There are some that love gear and have the expendable income to explore that new gear and further love that whole process. Absolutely nothing, nothing wrong with that. There are a lot worse hobby pursuits out there that cost a whole lot more. The Los Angeles Ducati riding crowd comes to mind painfully and quickly as more expensive This post is not to disparage those that love to hunt gear. I get that. If you happen to be one of those guys the AT 2020 USB is decidedly not a Holy Grail type mic, and you'd do well to start researching the heavier hitters if indeed that's your goal!

Joseph
what you are saying makes a lot of sense, the AT 2020 or the apogee ;
is that the apogee 96k USB mic for ipad and Mac ? I am kind of the gear
hunt type but I also understand what you are saying about the plug and
play and learn the process well , and I try to listen to reasonable informed advice .
What I was originally thinking was possibly to get a
AKG perception 220 or some mic along those lines and a stand
and some sort of D/A (plus what else/pre amp) that would work with the mac and garage band
and I could use that mic for vocal track , and to mic an acoustic guitar
or get another mic(s) to be able to do both at once and that all the equipment could be used when I graduate to Logic or Pro Tools if I get the chops with
the entry stuff

[MikeBmusic]

I'm not going to (purposely) disagree iwth Joseph - but let me throw this caveat in:
If you use a USB mic, that will be your only audio input device you can use at one time. Limitation of most DAWs and computers (some people have figured out work-arounds for certain systems, but there can be a clock issue between the two A-D converters).

If you use a standard microphone (XLR connection) and an audio interface, you can switch microphones (upgrade), use multiple microphones (assuming you get an AI with more than one input), use a mic and a DI input (again assuming the inputs on the AI allow this), etc.
Also, audio interfaces allow more flexibility with monitoring -most allow headphones, and seperate outputs for monitor speakers, and allow for direct monitoring of the inputs simultaneously with monitoring of recorded tracks.

The AT2020USB is a very good choice as a USB mic, I just would not recommend a USB mic to anyone who would potentially want to go further with their recording in the future.

OK, maybe I did disagree with Joseph.

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by MikeBmusic

I'm not going to (purposely) disagree iwth Joseph - but let me throw this caveat in:
If you use a USB mic, that will be your only audio input device you can use at one time. Limitation of most DAWs and computers (some people have figured out work-arounds for certain systems, but there can be a clock issue between the two A-D converters).

If you use a standard microphone (XLR connection) and an audio interface, you can switch microphones (upgrade), use multiple microphones (assuming you get an AI with more than one input), use a mic and a DI input (again assuming the inputs on the AI allow this), etc.
Also, audio interfaces allow more flexibility with monitoring -most allow headphones, and seperate outputs for monitor speakers, and allow for direct monitoring of the inputs simultaneously with monitoring of recorded tracks.

The AT2020USB is a very good choice as a USB mic, I just would not recommend a USB mic to anyone who would potentially want to go further with their recording in the future.

OK, maybe I did disagree with Joseph.

Naw that's a very good point Mike. The 2020 USB will indeed only provide for a single input and in and of itself that's absolutely a drawback!

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by gtonesine

Joseph
what you are saying makes a lot of sense, the AT 2020 or the apogee ;
is that the apogee 96k USB mic for ipad and Mac ? I am kind of the gear
hunt type but I also understand what you are saying about the plug and
play and learn the process well , and I try to listen to reasonable informed advice .
What I was originally thinking was possibly to get a
AKG perception 220 or some mic along those lines and a stand
and some sort of D/A (plus what else/pre amp) that would work with the mac and garage band
and I could use that mic for vocal track , and to mic an acoustic guitar
or get another mic(s) to be able to do both at once and that all the equipment could be used when I graduate to Logic or Pro Tools if I get the chops with
the entry stuff

Yes indeed MikeB makes a good point here. If in fact you're at the point where your working in more than one mic at a time then a multi i/o converter and a couple of mics makes more sense. Your original post lead me to believe you were looking for a singular mic for your vocal.

I do however want to maintain the distinction between functions and features vs sonic abilities. There can be absolutely no doubt that more money will bring a better feature set and that's never been my point. More money will bring a better feature set...period. It's when expectations are planted that more expensive mic pre's and or converters and or mics will bring better recordings I get a little wonky.

[ChuckS]

I'm using a Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 for an interface. I chose it because I wanted at least 2 mic inputs. I also wanted an interface that could be used as a standalone device (such as 'live' use where I needed mic preamps and an adjustable output connected to monitors, and where I didn't want to have to use a computer with it). It has a headphone amp. It also allows zero latency monitoring during recording.

The Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 interface might also be ok for you if you don't need standalone operation (must always be used with a computer).

I usually don't record vocals; my needs are for stereo recording of acoustic guitar. I happen to use either two ADK A6 medium diameter condensor mics or two 3 Zigma small diameter condensor mics.

[whitecloud]

Glad to hear some of the USB mic limitations brought to light. We have been down this path before so don't want to re-hash a lot of the same discussions, but I will add this. I have mentored a friend for the past 7 or 8 years. This not only involved budget gear options but recording techniques and basic engineering. He has grown and come into his own and has shared some useful info with me as well. This guy has had to upgrade his audio interface several times due to driver concerns or i/o options. He did buy a "dedicated" mic pre and has noticed a difference and is happy. Didn't really have to spend much. He has a bunch of mics that see little use. They are either just above or below the $100.00 mark. One of them is the 2020(I have used it as well). His main mic is the Joly modded 990(hulk). Sure his recording chops have improved along the way, but at times he does go back and use some of those cheaper mics but usually always goes back and re-tracks with his "keeper" mic.
This is just fact as far as my friend is concerned. HE is happy. Of course he has learned the importance of room treatment and does have some decent monitors. In later years I have taken a different path. I really haven't sold much and use everything I have. There has got to be some truth to "you pay for what you get" perhaps not always in a sonic way but I do believe there are differences between mics as they are designed and voiced differently in many cases. This applies to even the very affordable choices. Some mic pre's have character/color that one may desire and perhaps want to print rather than try to duplicate with a plug in. I truly understand how one can get caught up with obsessions. The good news is I don't have to spend a ton of money to get decent recordings. This wasn't so years ago.

[whitecloud]

I would suggest checking out the CAD m179 for a decent budget mic @ around $129.00. Variable polar pattern. You can use this one for guitars or vox, maybe later on get a CAD e70 @ around 100 bills. With those two mics you have many options. The e70 comes with two capsules, cardoid and omni.
There some choices for interfaces between 150-200. The Steinberg UR 22, Focusrite, Mackie Black Jack. With this set up your note spending a ton of cash and should be happy for quite some time.

[DesolationAngel]

On the Mac you can 'aggregate' devices, using the Audio MIDI Setup app that comes on every Mac . So, for instance, you can take the Apogee Jam, get an Apogee Mic and aggregate the two so that logically the computer sees them as one device but two inputs thus:



So, you can see here that I occasionally aggregate my Jam and Mic into a two input device. And occasionally I'll aggregate my Mic and my One into a three input, two output device. Depending on my needs.

You don't have to be limited to one of anything when using USB devices...

[MikeBmusic]

Originally Posted by DesolationAngel

On the Mac you can 'aggregate' devices, using the Audio MIDI Setup app that comes on every Mac . So, for instance, you can take the Apogee Jam, get an Apogee Mic and aggregate the two so that logically the computer sees them as one device but two inputs thus:



So, you can see here that I occasionally aggregate my Jam and Mic into a two input device. And occasionally I'll aggregate my Mic and my One into a three input, two output device. Depending on my needs.

You don't have to be limited to one of anything when using USB devices...

That is mostly true of Macs, not PCs. Again, the clock issue from two separate A-D converters CAN become an issue, in Windows, at least.

The clock issue, to define, is when two internal clocks start at the same moment, but over time there is drift between them, so after 5 minutes (for example), one clock may be at 300,000 milliseconds and the other at 299,950 milliseconds. The longer you record, the more the 'drift' is noticeable.

[DesolationAngel]

Originally Posted by MikeBmusic

That is mostly true of Macs, not PCs.

Yup. But as the OP stated that he was working in Garageband I thought it was a safe bet to assume that he was on a Mac

The clock issue, to define, is when two internal clocks start at the same moment, but over time there is drift between them, so after 5 minutes (for example), one clock may be at 300,000 milliseconds and the other at 299,950 milliseconds. The longer you record, the more the 'drift' is noticeable.

Again, on the Mac, you can make one of the devices in an aggregate the clock source... so that they stay in sync.

[gtonesine]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

Yes indeed MikeB makes a good point here. If in fact you're at the point where your working in more than one mic at a time then a multi i/o converter and a couple of mics makes more sense. Your original post lead me to believe you were looking for a singular mic for your vocal.

I do however want to maintain the distinction between functions and features vs sonic abilities. There can be absolutely no doubt that more money will bring a better feature set and that's never been my point. More money will bring a better feature set...period. It's when expectations are planted that more expensive mic pre's and or converters and or mics will bring better recordings I get a little wonky.

Joseph,
I have been looking at the at 2020 and the apogee mic... and so perceive the advantages you have mentioned. The at 2020 is quite a bit cheaper when you look at actually setting up the mic,
the apogee mic/96k needs accessories , 3 meter cord and adapter for the mic boom ,
kit for 59.00 , I did start reading a basic recording course I found on recording magazine
to get a better overview of audio recording, very interesting and a fairly detailed beginner look at recording which makes me appreciate your "easy peasy" approach..