People Who Say They Can't Sing

[ALBD]

Originally Posted by paulzoom

But Dylan has a great voice in my opinion.

I completely agree. Age has taken a toll but his voice is under appreciated and too often misunderstood imho.

[mdshax]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

I have always been able to carry a tune vocally with limited range.
Over the last year I have spent almost as many hours practicing vocals as practicing guitar. Using some You Tube free techniques and lessons, I have been able to extend my range upwards considerably. In addition, I have learned better breathing, inflection and dynamics to the point where I feel I have improved at least 100%. I have also listened closely to what accomplished vocalists do a lot of which is singing with emotion.
From what I read on the AGF, I think there are many of you who could realize vast improvement with a little knowledge and some practice.
I'm here to encourage those who are willing to try to resolve to get better in 2018 to work on it. It can be done and it is extremely rewarding.
It is really no different than learning the nuances of guitar playing that raise your competence level. Good luck to those of you who want to sing better!

Alright, cough up them links.

Seriously, I've been thinking about doing this for awhile and would appreciate recommendations.

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by mdshax

Alright, cough up them links.

Seriously, I've been thinking about doing this for awhile and would appreciate recommendations.

Do a search on You Tube for Ken Tamblin.

[DCCougar]

Originally Posted by mdshax

Alright, cough up them links.

There's a couple back on page 1.

[nedray]

A few people have mentioned this, but the church choir is a great resource for building and maintaining all kinds of musical skills. Not to sound snobbish, but I mean a choir that sings the classical church music and ancient hymns that have been around since the Renaissance. These choirs are usually looking for new members, and male voices are especially in demand.

Since I started doing this about four years ago, my music reading has improved and I've improved my vocal technique, range, enunciation and stamina. I've sung alongside professional and former professional singers and asked them to coach me on various techniques. The church music directors I've worked with are classically trained musicians, well versed in vocal technique and direction, and they teach you how to get the best from your vocal instrument.

In addition, you have a new body of music to master every week, which keeps you focused if you take it seriously, so you use the technique you're taught and you keep improving. I have the limited range and the coughing issues that others do, and this disciplined approach to improvement has worked for me.

[Woolbury]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

I've played in bands where it was both helpful and cost-effective to turn non-singers into singers. Main thing with non-singers is inhibition, which is reasonable if they can't sing yet are being forced to. Other main thing is that they think singing is a whole different process from talking. It isn't -- with singing vs talking, the consonants are exactly the same. That's half of it taken care of right there.

But the vowels tend to be longer when you sing, sometimes a lot longer. So try this -- pick a word, or a name. "Melvin?" Yeah that's good. Start saying "Melvin" over and over in your normal speaking voice. Take note of how your body feels when you do it, what's vibrating in your chest and your throat and head, and what muscles are relaxed (all of them, we hope). Now gradually start elongating the "e." Melvin... Meelvin... Meeelvin... that physical feeling should remain the same. And you thought you were relaxed before, but now try relaxing even more, so your chest and throat and head will vibrate more without any increase in effort. It'll feel good.

Fine. Now all you have to do is elongate that Melvin "e" on a specific pitch, and you're singing. I've never met anyone who couldn't do it. A few that wouldn't, but that's different.

So you might want to give this a try, and see if it works for you. The main thing is, when you figure out that singing is supposed to feel good, you'll want to do it.

Wow, this whole thread is inspiring and instructional. I can hit some notes, but am very timid and don't feel like Im expressive or convey emotion. Im gonna get to work!

[Woolbury]

Originally Posted by dekutree64

The challenge is finding a place to practice where nobody can hear me sound like an idiot for the first few weeks.

Yea, Im going to the padded room!

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by Woolbury

Yea, Im going to the padded room!

When I lived in NYC (where nobody drives) I'd regularly come across people singing between subway cars.

[golfreggie]

Originally Posted by s2y

Singing is only half of my battle. I've never been able to sing well while playing guitar or bass.

Me too, when I try to sing and play I usually am prone to making errors playing, or forgetting a lyric. I am better than I was, and the more I have played the song on the guitar without thinking about the instrument then I can get better at singing and playing. But if I have to concentrate on the music it affects my singing. That is why I am so impressed with guys like Paul McCartney and the rest of the Beatles who can play and sing, not looking at any cheat sheets at all, meaning the lyrics and music are like second nature, especially Paul and the intricate bass lines and his flawless singing. You sometimes don't know just by listening to recordings as it can be recorded separately, as everyone knows. But the videos of the performances are really interesting how he plays the bass and never looks at the finger board. Amazing!

[Laughingboy68]

Originally Posted by Steadfastly

And Neil Young, Johnny Cash, Joe Cocker, Joni Mitchell. It is often the uniqueness of the voice that appeals rather than the out and out perfect pitch in the voice.

While the above singers are all unique sounding and may not have always had mellifluous tone, they are without exception, all great singers.

I think there is more debate when we're talking Kris Kristofferson or Bob Dylan or Leonard Cohen, but even in these cases, there are songs that they've written that I prefer to hear sung by them, despite their limitations.

It's all a little subjective, but that's my perspective.

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by Laughingboy68

While the above singers are all unique sounding and may not have always had mellifluous tone, they are without exception, all great singers.

I think there is more debate when we're talking Kris Kristofferson or Bob Dylan or Leonard Cohen, but even in these cases, there are songs that they've written that I prefer to hear sung by them, despite their limitations.

It's all a little subjective, but that's my perspective.

Your perspective is well-taken.
Unfortunately for the rest of us, these folks can get away with their uniqueness because of a whole lot of things none of us will ever be able to tap into.
Their "limitations" became an asset for them.
A lot of folks don't care for Neil Young's vocals, but try and hit some of the notes he hits. I sing "Harvest Moon" in its original key and it ain't no picnic.
Then I'll turn right around and sing "Broken Halos" by Chris Stapleton.
I have learned how to manipulate my vocal chords to get from Baritone to whatever. I'm not here to suggest everyone can do this nor would I necessarily recommend it. I'm only trying to encourage folks to expand their horizons and learn to sing. As I said in my OP, if you can sing in key, you can get better, a lot better.

[Rmz76]

Originally Posted by gfspencer

I agree with you and would like to add . . . . There are many performers who can't "sing" but they can put over a song. Bob Dylan, Tom Waits, Keith Richards, and Joe Cocker come to mind.

The way that I learned to sing was singing a choir. I've been doing it for 55 years!

For decades people have criticized Bob Dylan and Tom Waits vocals. I've always disagreed. When these performers are pitchy, that technique is part of their art. Perhaps that falls in line with what you mean by "put over a song". The reality is that in addition to the endless accolades for his songwriting, Bob Dylan has won several Grammy Awards for Best Rock and Pop Vocal. His latest nominations for traditional music which he did not write. By the prestigious awards, he's not just a great singer, he's quantifiable as one of the best. Tom Waits has been nominated in the Grammy "Best Rock Vocal" category several times as well.

In regards to Dylan and Waits: When someone says "well he can't sing" I assume that judgement is being made based on the measure of "a good singing voice" for theater. The generic applications of voice where high society has certain established rules of protocol that they hold in their loftily positions. It's like comparing classically trained musicians to Popular and Folk musicians. To me it just doesn't make sense to draw comparisons to art forms so very different. It's as ridiculous as trying to judge an Abstract painter for his lack of realism. The shame is on the critic for judgement on that which he or she doesn't understand.

To be "a good vocal" in non-subjective terms I think is to find a vocal performance that moves a large group of people. Not to be judged by it's accuracy in perfect technique or even perfect pitch, but in it's ability to create an emotional connection with it's audience... To communicate with it's audience. His latest performance of traditional covers in all their raspy glory prove that when Bob Dylan wants to hit all the notes just right he certainly can.

[rokdog49]

Had a "coming out vocally" party with my grandson today.
He came over to jam and he has always insisted he can't sing. Having heard him and knowing he can sing in tune, I spent two hours with him working on his vocals. He is a natural Baritone like me and he loves Chris Stapleton so we worked on "Broken Halos" for about 30 minutes. I sang each phrase to demonstrate and had him repeat them five or six times. I helped him with the nuances and phrasing as we went along and in a short span of time I was able to get him projecting and singing with feeling so well that even he was amazed and smiling from ear to ear.
When we both felt he was ready,he sang the whole song and it was really pretty good.
Now remember, this is a 17 year old who said he couldn't sing.
He was on cloud nine. We worked on some other songs that required some range stretching, once again, line by line until he was comfortably singing them.
It was a blast witnessing someone "find his voice", especially my grandson.
All it took was some good encouragement, tips, patience and repetition.
Next will be "open mic" time for him! ...can't wait
I'm offering this as encouragement for all you "closet vocalists" out there.

[polarred21]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

them.
It was a blast witnessing someone "find his voice", especially my grandson.
All it took was some good encouragement, tips, patience and repetition.
Next will be "open mic" time for him! ...can't wait
I'm offering this as encouragement for all you "closet vocalists" out there.

Awesome story and sounds like something he may never forget from his grandpa.

Yes the term "closet vocalist" fits me well. BUT, I have moved up to a Bluetooth shower speaker and that I can sing along and jam to .

[Pura Vida]

Jamie, I'll need to read through the thread later, but thanks for this post. Over the last year or two, I've worked on being able to sing and play at the same time (something I couldn't do well before).

I was an ok singer in my younger years, but definitely out of practice, so online videos could be really helpful. Cheers!