Which pickup? Fishman Rare Earth SC or an L.R. Baggs M1A.

[Papa Joe]

Hello everybody,

I’m looking to install a pickup on my Larrivee D-03R, it will be for occasional use as I usually play unamplified at home. Based on my research I’m thinking of using either a Fishman Rare Earth SC or an L.R. Baggs M1A.
A salesman at a local guitar shop reckons the Fishman would be the best bet for a dread, because although the Baggs is very good, it produces a much warmer sound, and as the dread already has a warm sound, the combination doesn’t produce a great result. But he reckons the Baggs is much better on a smaller bodied guitar.
So I was wondering if anyone here has tried either of these pickups on a guitar like mine, and what their opinion is?

[GibbyPrague]

Ive trie an M1a and the tone has been rubbish. Sounds more like an electric than an acoustic, plus i tend to get lot of 'static' with it as it so sensitive to all sound around.

Havent tried the Fishman one but i would be interested how it sounds. I generally prefer Fishman products as Ive never had a problem with them and like technologies like Aura etc ..

[guitarisrshevy]

I've been using the M1A for the last 12 months problem free. I've tried the Fishman but i found it muddy and very overprice.

The M1 is a good pickup but you need to adjust the pole pieces, its very easy to overlook and get a too boxy or to stringy sound depending on the hight of the pole pieces.
When i had one put in my Sobell it was quite electricy sounding but once the pole pieces were moved away from the strings, screwed into the pick up the tone changed to be more balanced.


http://www.soundclick.com/bands/defa...bandID=1075724

All three are recorded with the M1active and a little EQ from a Headway EDB-1 Two different guitars both equipped with M1A's and they sound like an acoustic

[lschwart]

Originally Posted by guitarisrshevy

I've been using the M1A for the last 12 months problem free. I've tried the Fishman but i found it muddy and very overprice.

The M1 is a good pickup but you need to adjust the pole pieces, its very easy to overlook and get a too boxy or to stringy sound depending on the hight of the pole pieces.
When i had one put in my Sobell it was quite electricy sounding but once the pole pieces were moved away from the strings, screwed into the pick up the tone changed to be more balanced.


http://www.soundclick.com/bands/defa...bandID=1075724

All three are recorded with the M1active and a little EQ from a Headway EDB-1 Two different guitars both equipped with M1A's and they sound like an acoustic

Very nice recordings!

Louis

[Papa Joe]

Thank you both for your comments, although your opinions are polarized. I think I might ask if I can demo both on my guitar at the guitar shop, I know the main man at the dealership where I bought my guitar uses the M1 and loves it, so he will probably lead me toward that one.
Of course the next step will be deciding on an appropriate amp!
Loved the tracks guitarisrshevy!

[rpg51]

If its me I would avoid both the Fishman and the Baggs and go with a K&K Pure Mini passive PU with a suitable and impedance matched DI or Preamp - (Orchid being my #1 choice) depending on how you will be amplifying.

[dcopper]

As you can see there is a great variety of responses in experience with both LR Baggs M1A and Fishman Rare Earth pickups. I have both passive (M1) and active (M1A) pickups as well as the Rare Earth Humbucker (original version) and new Rare Earth Humbucker revoiced with the volume control. I am currently interchanging them on a GC8. I installed the M1A endpin (TRS to account for the battery) and can then switch pickups in and out of the guitar. As far as tone goes, I actually prefer the original Fishman Rare Earth humbucker over all four mag pickups. The revoiced one sounds less acoustic to me but has the advantage of the volume wheel which helps in certain venues (like church services). The M1, passive, sounds better to me than the M1A, which has this sort of nasal quality especially noticeable on the bottom three strings. I can eq them better with a complete cut of the mids. The nice thing about the M1A, again, is onboard volume control.
When I tried a Rare Earth single coil, it was just a bit noisy for me, but the tone was pretty good.
I have my pickups set up so I can just plug them in and out and switch as I feel the need. My go-to pickup is the original Fishman Rare Earth hb. Although it is electric in some respects, it retains more acoustic tone than the revoiced RE and the Baggs M1A.
I think they all need a cut in the mids that takes away a lot of the electric character of the pickups. All of this said, it DOES matter what you are putting these pickups into. A dreadnought sounds different with these pickups than my GC8.
So, all in all, the passive M1 and the original RE won the day for me.
Hope this helps.
davidc

[clicktone]

Baggs M1.... but ya gotta dial in the tone with your little allen wrench

[alohachris]

Happy Thanksgiving & Aloha,

Of course, Dual+ Source Pickup Systems are preferred for sound & control.

However, I can't recommend either the Baggs or Fishman soundhole pickups you asked about. If I were you, I'd check out the Mi-Si Duo magnetic soundhole pickup, which I feel is superior to the other two.

http://www.firstqualitymusic.com/p_M...up-System.aspx

http://mi-si.com/products/

The Mi-Si has several advantages over the Baggs & Fishman magnetics - a major one being that you can more easily put in or take out & it doesn't need a battery pack inside your guitar. Only takes one minute to recharge for 8 hours of usage!

Another is that the Mi-Si is more forgiving (to you & the audience) if you hit it - it doesn't sound like you pulled a cable or kicked an amp. You don't have to leave it in your guitar if you don't want to - easier to remove or connect. You don't need heavy battery packs inside your guitar like the others that could "un-velcro" at the wrong moment.

The Mi-Si is also quieter (less noisy), much lighter & much smaller (less visually invasive) than the other two you mentioned - which is better for unplugged sound, IMO, & for the health of your soundboard. It looks better, IMO.

I use a DTAR MagMic. But I only put it in when I play with a band or in a tight loud stage situation - rare these days. Very nice sound, but less flexible than the Mi-Si.

The best of the magnetics, IMO, is the expensive & hard to find Sunrise.

If I had it to do over, I'd get the Mi-Si Duo. Decent price too.

I wish I'd paid attention to Gary when he first turned us on to the Mi-Si here years ago.

Finally, if you haven't thought about it, investigate dual+ source pickup systems for better sound & control. One pickup alone - especially the much less natural soundhole magnetic pickup - can't give you that in a wide variety of venues if you're gigging or thinking about it. In a loud band situation, it's fine.

Here's Andy McKee on the topic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfsHyhbWAjk&NR=1

A Hui Hou
alohachris

[mutantrock]

The M1A soundhole pickup sounds really good on cedar top guitar. My partner has a Seagull with this pickup.

[Papa Joe]

Thanks for all the replies guys, very helpful.
I have continued my research, at a very slow pace as you can see. I’ve listened to the M1 and the Fishman, and wasn’t exactly thrilled with either, I thought the Baggs sounded slightly muddy, while the Fishman was very bright and a little harsh. They could both be improved I’m sure, but I felt the sound from both was distinctly electric. Seems to be the general opinion that these magnetic pups are particularly useful in loud band situations, which I’m not expecting to be participating in for the time being.
The k&k pure western mini is getting a very good press, and from the examples I’ve heard on youtube it sounds great, just like your unplugged acoustic, only louder. So I think I’m settled on the k&k system, my only concern now is should I get the pure western mini or the Ultra pure western mini. Anyone have strong views either way?

[jjrubin]

not a mag pickup user myself, so I can't address the OP question...

But I've always wondered, all those who use mag soundhole pickups exclusively: do you use electric guitar string (sets. or just an unwound 3 string)? I'm asking because ever since I read that mag coils react to the steel core only, not the bronze winding, I thought maybe you'd want to use an unwound (electric) 3 string?

[royd]

Originally Posted by jjrubin

all those who use mag soundhole pickups exclusively: do you use electric guitar string (sets. or just an unwound 3 string)? I'm asking because ever since I read that mag coils react to the steel core only, not the bronze winding, I thought maybe you'd want to use an unwound (electric) 3 string?

I use a Sunrise and a McIntyre SBT in my Lowden and my back up guitar is a Taylor with the ES system which has a magnectic pup underneath the fingerboard...

I use regular acoustic string - P/B bluegrass gauge to be exact. I think your observation is correct that the magnet only senses the movement of the core but any reasonably good magnetic pickup for an acoustic guitar will be designed for that and compensate for that concern.

FWIW, There is a string that is designed for hybrid guitars that addresses the issue in an interesting way - the DR Zebra which has both nickel/steel and bronze wraps around a steel core. I used them when I had a hybrid guitar but haven't ever tried them on a pure acoustic

[mikec_j]

As a newbie to these forms (just singed up yesterday) I went over the same ground last year for my Larravee D03r I didnt like the quack you get out of under the bridge transducers. So I setteled on a Dean Markley Trio it has a bridge trans, a sound hole magnetic p/u as well as a mic, each with its own volume control so you can do your on eqing ie trans for hi's soundhole for mids, mic for bass, so it allows you to maixmize the body and tone of your guitar.......just my 2 cents.

[Papa Joe]

Thanks Mike, that’s a real nice guitar you have there. You seem to have covered all the bases, do you get any feed back problems using the mic?