Warm Audio?

[DupleMeter]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

Interesting comments. Thank you for the kind words on the performance.

I am not a professional studio, just a guitar player in a home studio having fun. I imagine that for most readers here, this is obvious.

I would certainly appreciate having even better small diaphragm condenser mics for recording my guitars, but in retirement, the cost of equipment is always a major consideration.

So then the question is, do I have to spend $3300 for a pair of Schoeps MK4 mics or can I get by with good sound for $750. There are a lot of folks who just spend the money. I listened to comparisons of the mics on Sweetwater and I thought the Warm Audio WA-84 mics stood up very well compared to much more expensive mics. So I took the more cost-effective approach.

Before this I was using a pair of Rode NT5 mics which cost ~$400 when I bought them. The Warm Audio WA-84 sound considerably better -- much warmer sound, much less brittle high end -- compared to the Rode NT5 mics. But compared to something like the Schoeps mics? I have never had the luxury to compare. Maybe I really am missing something.

Thanks for your thoughts on all this.

- Glenn

Don't take my comments as saying you need to do better. They were definitely not intended that way. I understand the target market here, but wanted to point out that marketing hype isn't always reality. They are fine for their price, but they are not magic. They still have limitations because they are being made to hit a price point. Unlike something like a U67 or C12 that is being made to hit a sonic ideal, at any cost.

And these are WAY better than NT5s! No doubt there.

I would stick with the WA84s, they are doing their job. There is very little ROI on a pair of Scheops or DPAs for you. In fact, for far less you could rent studio time if/when you had the desire for better a recording in a better space with better gear & experienced ears. But, until then, stay the course & learn the tools you have. Just because they aren't the right mic for me, doesn't mean that can't be the right mic for you. There is no "right" or "wrong", just degrees of subjective preferences.

It's like guitars. Some makers produce incredible maple guitars. And they sound great in other people's hand. They are not for me. My touch/style just doesn't vibe with the dry maple. I can never get what I want out of one. But that's personal. It doesn't mean that maple isn't right for someone else.

I didn't want to start a "how to" thing, but I was able to make your youtube sound significantly better to my ears with some very simple EQ moves. I used a Sontec mastering EQ that adds some of its own thing to the sound, but in a very pleasing way. So, play around & learn how to maximize those mics. There are always way to enhance what you're getting from them. Play to their strengths.

[Glennwillow]

Interesting, again. Thanks for your response.

I did no EQ whatsoever. I'd be curious to hear what you came up with if you want to send me an mp3 in a PM.

Thanks,
Glenn

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

I am not a professional studio, just a guitar player in a home studio having fun.

Glenn, I think the answer lies with the type of player one is. I consider you a very skilled & even balanced guitarist. When you are that skilled, you don't need much of anything else. Certainly not a much compression and not as much EQ. No matter what mics you have used in the past, you always sound excellent.

Doug Young, and Michael Watts also always sound good on what every they play through. Why something works for some people often has to do with their style and touch. Michael makes his Maple and Mahogany guitars bloom like Rosewood guitars. While Rosewood is often the first choice for most Finger-stylists, Michael makes his guitars sing. They work for him. As where for others, they may not.

The same thing could be said about Microphones and preamps. I am not as skilled. But beyond that, is the fact that my style is based upon tone and overtones created by a large dynamic range. For that I need a mic that can capture the way I play. And even then I am still searching for that perfect mic positions and settings.

Anyway, in my humble opinion, you are doing just great. Not sure that higher end mics would give you much more.

[Doug Young]

Hey Glenn, I think your recording sounds really nice. Three different guitars, three different sounds (I like the Olson the best, but...).

Since I don't know how the guitars sounded in the room, I can't really tell what aspect of the sound is the mics vs the guitars vs you playing and so on. Usually, I find the interesting (and confusing) part comes when you compare things, like with your guitars - each one sounds great in its own right, but then you go "oh, wait, maybe I like that one better".

Same with mics. I usually record with multiple pairs of mics, and end up choosing between them, just to have that option. Sometimes one sounds better, sometimes it's the other. Sometimes it might be that on one song, one guitar, mic A sounds better than mic B. Other times, I like mic A on Monday and mic B on Tuesday, and oops, on Wed, I'm back to mic A :-)

And of course everyone has different taste. I'd love to hear DupleMeter's EQ on your tracks, but mostly just to hear what someone else's taste on it would be (and to hear what that Sontec does!) But I think you're getting a really good sound, and doing it with no processing! What role those specific mics play, I have no idea, but I think they're working for you.

[Glennwillow]

Thank you Doug! I really appreciate your comments and encouragement! Doug, as AcousticDreams commented, your recordings always sound great, but then you are such a good player and have such good taste in music and guitars...

Also, AcousticDreams, I appreciate your comments and encouragement very much.

I have just turned 75 years old, so my ears may not be as good as they once were, although in a recent hearing check I still hear up to 16K Hz. My recollection of that recording I did was that the guitars in the recording sounded just like they sounded in the room, at least as close as my hearing could tell. And of course my ears were not down where the mics were located, so in some ways, the guitars sounded slightly better, more alive. I thought everything sounded very accurate. I used a very slight amount of compression on each channel but not enough to color the sound. There is no EQ because I thought the guitars sounded just right as they were recorded.

I was plucking the guitar strings harder than usual, I suppose to bring out Carl Miner's melody a little more and because I had his flat picking sound in my head at the time. And so my hard plucking of the strings may be creating transients that might normally not be there in my playing. I bring that up because those transients were as much in the room as they are on that recording. I have very hard, stiff nails and I keep them fairly short and filed smooth with a glass file.

Thanks to all for the feedback and the encouragement. I also appreciate the feedback from DupleMeter. It's interesting to get feedback from a pro recording engineer.

- Glenn

[dnf777]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

It's interesting to get feedback from a pro recording engineer.

- Glenn

We’re really fortunate to have a group of both professionals and highly accomplished amateurs here willing to share their knowledge and experience. I have found this recording forum one of the most helpful anywhere.

It also has resulted in a few assaults upon the piggy bank, but thats all good. No danger of running out for a Sontec or Manley mastering EQ just yet! Maybe once the house is paid off….

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by dnf777

We’re really fortunate to have a group of both professionals and highly accomplished amateurs here willing to share their knowledge and experience. I have found this recording forum one of the most helpful anywhere.

It also has resulted in a few assaults upon the piggy bank, but thats all good. No danger of running out for a Sontec or Manley mastering EQ just yet! Maybe once the house is paid off….

Hi Dave,

Yes, this subforum is a good resource. As you note, it does tend to encourage the spending of thousands upon thousands of dollars!

- Glenn

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by dnf777

It also has resulted in a few assaults upon the piggy bank...

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

Yes, this subforum is a good resource. As you note, it does tend to encourage the spending of thousands upon thousands of dollars!

I'm innocent, I tell ya! I was only trying to be helpful.

[DupleMeter]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

Interesting, again. Thanks for your response.

I did no EQ whatsoever. I'd be curious to hear what you came up with if you want to send me an mp3 in a PM.

Thanks,
Glenn

I didn't save anything, just processed the youtube output through the EQ.

If you can send me the audio I'd be happy to EQ & send a touched up version back.

[dnf777]

Originally Posted by DupleMeter

I didn't save anything, just processed the youtube output through the EQ.

If you can send me the audio I'd be happy to EQ & send a touched up version back.

If you would be so kind, Id love to hear what a Sontec can do to an already beautiful track.

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by DupleMeter

I didn't save anything, just processed the youtube output through the EQ.

If you can send me the audio I'd be happy to EQ & send a touched up version back.

Let me work on that. Thanks! I have sent you a PM, Steve.

- Glenn

[BillCoplin]

Glennwillow - Your recordings are the reason I purchased a pair of Warm Audio WA84s. Thank you for your contributions here as well as sharing your talent!

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by BillCoplin

Glennwillow - Your recordings are the reason I purchased a pair of Warm Audio WA84s. Thank you for your contributions here as well as sharing your talent!

Thank you Bill!

How nice of you to provide such kind feedback! I hope you like those mics!

Take care,
Glenn

[anton]

Great discussion here. And lovely playing Glenn, really enjoyed that recording.

I don't live in this world professionally either, just a player recording at home. I've been tempted by a pair of WA-84's as a second pair of SDC mics. Warm Audio does seem to be making nice stuff that are copies of vintage gear at a more accessible price. Having never used the vintage gear I don't know how they compare, I'm sure there are folks here whose ears could definitely tell the difference, I don't know if I could.

Comparing mics is interesting. Its like $X dollars seems to get you most of the way there, and after that its lots of money for a .5% improvement. Whether that additional money is worth it depends on the individual and their ears/budget/taste, i guess. And I think ones ears/taste can be come more refined the more you record and work with your gear.

I went through a handful of under $1K/pair mics, buying and selling and buying again. Eventually I just pulled the trigger on the pair of Gefell M300's that i really wanted, and now I don't worry about mics anymore. Sure, I'd love a pair of Schoeps, but not enough to spend the additional money right now.

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by anton

Great discussion here. And lovely playing Glenn, really enjoyed that recording.

I don't live in this world professionally either, just a player recording at home. I've been tempted by a pair of WA-84's as a second pair of SDC mics. Warm Audio does seem to be making nice stuff that are copies of vintage gear at a more accessible price. Having never used the vintage gear I don't know how they compare, I'm sure there are folks here whose ears could definitely tell the difference, I don't know if I could.

Comparing mics is interesting. Its like $X dollars seems to get you most of the way there, and after that its lots of money for a .5% improvement. Whether that additional money is worth it depends on the individual and their ears/budget/taste, i guess. And I think ones ears/taste can be come more refined the more you record and work with your gear.

I went through a handful of under $1K/pair mics, buying and selling and buying again. Eventually I just pulled the trigger on the pair of Gefell M300's that i really wanted, and now I don't worry about mics anymore. Sure, I'd love a pair of Schoeps, but not enough to spend the additional money right now.

Hi Anton!

Well, nothing wrong with Gefell M300 mics! Good for you! And I appreciate your comments above! Thank you!

- Glenn