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Old 04-23-2009, 05:39 PM
Acoustician Acoustician is offline
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Default Offset Soundholes: Fad or the Future?

They sure look intriguing ... but then you wonder: if the strings are here, why is the soundhole there? How does the sound project if there's a disconnect between points A and B? Or am I missing something?:
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Old 04-23-2009, 05:42 PM
Jeff M Jeff M is offline
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They've been around for awhile, and will remain so, but they won't become anything near an "industry standard".

Re strings not over the sound hole; the sound hole does not act as a "port" to allow the strings vibrations INTO the guitar. It acts to allow the vibrational energy of the top / box OUT, so to speak.
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Old 04-23-2009, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acoustician View Post
They sure look intriguing ... but then you wonder: if the strings are here, why is the soundhole there? How does the sound project if there's a disconnect between points A and B? Or am I missing something?:
Hi Acoustician...
As an amateur recordist I can assure you that we never mic the ''sound hole'' which does have some sound emanating from it, but not the quality of sound one would want to capture.

The entire body of the guitar radiates sound, and the area around the bridge and 'south' of there to the heel of the guitar is very loud compared to the soundhole.

Played a dreadnaught guitar built with side-located sound holes, with no soundhole on the face. It was just as loud sitting across from it as a standard dreadnaught. It was much louder from the player's perspective.

A suspicion I have is since the strings are 'centered' on the body, so was the soundhole (they were putting them there in the 1600s and filling them with decorations thereby blocking sound if this is the source of the sound). Early builders understood that sound didn't just come from the port on the face.






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Old 04-23-2009, 06:26 PM
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More and more companies are experimenting and offering offset soundholes. Most will say that the offset soundhole increases top movement. They can change the bracing pattern since there is no hole in the middle that braces have to work around. This can REALLY change the tone of the instrument. Offset soundholes that are closer to the player better project the sound to the player while not stealing sound from the audience. Some companies have no sound hole on the top at all and have a large port on the side like Batson for example (www.batsonguitars.com).

Composite Acoustics (www.compositeacoustics.com) offers their guitars with regular soundholes and offset. All the dimensions are the same but the bracing is different. The offset soundholes provide more bass even though there is no change in body size at all. Some people don't like the extra bass due to a preference of more upfront mids. Great point for comparison as not many companies offer both hole placements on a production style guitar.

In the last few years I would venture that Mcpherson has done the most for advancing offset soundhole guitars. of course, Ovation has done it for MANY years.
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Old 04-23-2009, 06:44 PM
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The offset soundhole is a brilliant idea, imho. If you think about how much tension on the top from the strings, it's in the worst possible spot.

I've played a few guitars with offset soundholes including guitars by Harry Fleishman, Batson, McPherson, Tacoma, and CA. All of them had tremendous volume and projection. Others do it too, like Tom Bills, Joel Stehr, and Grimes.

I don't think it will ever become standard but it will certainly continue for lots of makers.

I wouldn't hesitate for second owning a guitar with an offset soundhole.

Kindly,
Danny
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Old 04-23-2009, 09:07 PM
David Hilyard David Hilyard is offline
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They may be a fad. But it doesn't matter to me. I love several that I've played. I have a Tom Bills with a side soundhole, none on the top. It's a loud beast for the player and certainly loud enough for the audience. I've also played a classical by Randy Reynolds with an offset hole in the upper bout top. It blew my socks off. I think they are great. Sort of different take on a port. The main idea is to put the soundhole where there is less energy being generated by the top, to free up the area where there is more energy potential. Controversial topic, and some don't buy it. Some think they are ugly. These people wouldn't own one. I would own several.

My Bills:



Randy Reynolds' Concert Grand classical.



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Old 04-23-2009, 09:27 PM
mulausk mulausk is offline
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I appreciate all of the perspectives and input here. Very interesting.

I think for me, I just can't get used to the asymmetry. A little too Picasso-y for my taste; like the nose is up on the forehead, so to speak. (Or would it be the mouth in this case?) Lack of asymmetry is probably why I lean away from cutaways too, for that matter. But the cutaway is a little more widely accepted and produced (which is probably why I'm more used to it).
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Old 04-23-2009, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drcmusic7 View Post
...I don't think it will ever become standard but it will certainly continue for lots of makers.
Hi Danny...
I'm inclined to agree - but it is more popular than in past decades. I don't think of it as a fad - more like a phase.

Since there are so many ways to build guitars with amazing tone, if a luthier is building and experimenting with offset holes and is obtaining wonderful tone and response, and improving the build till he/she is building world-class instruments, why would they ever change their design?

Not all players want a Martin, Taylor, or Gibson or something built to mimic their tone (modern or vintage tone).

So it makes sense that builders are experimenting with ways to extract the best sound from an instrument and if that involves side ports or offset sound holes, and produces an instrument that caters to players looking for a more contemporary or modern sound, they will still be around in a decade or two (they have actually been around that long).

Nobody is mentioning arch tops with offset f-holes side ports which have been in existence for decades. And what about this stunning guitar played by Thom Bresh with beautiful wing-like sound holes in the top adjacent to the strings (built by Dave Plummer of DesMoines, IA)?



Not likely a run-o-the-mill variety of guitar, but it sounds awesome...



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Old 04-23-2009, 10:08 PM
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I like them, and it seems that it would free up more of the top to produce sound. The only downside I see is when repairs are needed to the braces or bridge plate. A lot of repairs can be done through the sound hole. I recall seeing pictures of an off-set sound hole guitar with a large removable door, if that's the right term, at the tail end of the guitar. This allowed access to the braces etc.
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:46 PM
David Hilyard David Hilyard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ResoN View Post
I like them, and it seems that it would free up more of the top to produce sound. The only downside I see is when repairs are needed to the braces or bridge plate. A lot of repairs can be done through the sound hole. I recall seeing pictures of an off-set sound hole guitar with a large removable door, if that's the right term, at the tail end of the guitar. This allowed access to the braces etc.
Tom Bills puts an access door at the tail, which very easily allows installation of a pickup or work inside. My Genesis has a K&K Trinity which is very easy to get to through the door and almost as easy through the soundhole.



This is a Tom Ribbecke archtop called the Halfling, with an offset hole. This was at Healdsburg a few years ago.



And Fred Carlson's creation. Fred lives not far away and builds incredible instruments.

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Old 04-24-2009, 05:22 AM
fscott55 fscott55 is offline
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I think they're a stupid idea. How are you supposed to drop your pick inside the guitar resulting in hours of frustration getting it out if the soundhole is off center?
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Old 04-24-2009, 08:28 AM
runamuck runamuck is offline
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Originally Posted by fscott55 View Post
I think they're a stupid idea. How are you supposed to drop your pick inside the guitar resulting in hours of frustration getting it out if the soundhole is off center?
You get someone really smart (like an offset soundhole guitar designer) to get it out for you.

Last edited by runamuck; 04-24-2009 at 05:31 PM.
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Old 04-24-2009, 08:54 AM
Eugenius Eugenius is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
Hi Acoustician...
As an amateur recordist I can assure you that we never mic the ''sound hole'' which does have some sound emanating from it, but not the quality of sound one would want to capture.

The entire body of the guitar radiates sound, and the area around the bridge and 'south' of there to the heel of the guitar is very loud compared to the soundhole.

Played a dreadnaught guitar built with side-located sound holes, with no soundhole on the face. It was just as loud sitting across from it as a standard dreadnaught. It was much louder from the player's perspective.

A suspicion I have is since the strings are 'centered' on the body, so was the soundhole (they were putting them there in the 1600s and filling them with decorations thereby blocking sound if this is the source of the sound). Early builders understood that sound didn't just come from the port on the face.






Isn't that rosette amazing?
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Old 04-24-2009, 09:49 AM
Carbonius Carbonius is offline
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And Fred Carlson's creation. Fred lives not far away and builds incredible instruments.

That's just .... ummmmmmmm ...... WOW!! It's messing with my head like some sort of optical illusion. I see it has a bunch of sympathetic strings. I would love to just hear one of these guitars once.
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Old 04-24-2009, 09:54 AM
buzzardwhiskey buzzardwhiskey is offline
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Sacred cows taste great. I don't know if the offset sound-hole thing will replace the centered model, but I love the deepening registers it helps create in my GXi. And there's a whole other silly barrier...

I caught Bluegrass Etc http://www.tricopolisrecords.com/bluegrassetc.htm last night. These guys are near the top of the top of the genre. John Moore played a RainSong dreadnought that sounded amazing. Holy smokes that guy can play.
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