Dabbling in the electric on a budget: let's talk gear - Page 3

Dru Edwards · #31 02-25-2018, 08:32 AM

Terry, the time you spent trying out guitars is a huge investment. I love Les Pauls. Gibson LP Studios, Tributes, Faded, etc are all great guitars and much more affordable than the Standards and Customs.

Keep in mind that some models have thicker necks than others. You'll hear the term '50s neck, which is thicker than a '60s neck.

There's lots on the used market so keep them in mind too.

wrathfuldeity · #32 02-25-2018, 08:44 AM

Terry, another thought about amps...especially tubes. As for sound volume and the ability to crank or drive the amp with pedals and what not. A key thing is speaker size and efficiency. Having a stable is a good thing...4, 8, 10, 12 and 15" along with a weber z matcher. These are all recycled intercom spkrs found for $1-2; 4, 8 and 10"...and they are great for the old champ/tweed deluxe vibe...just got to watch for driving them too hard...with an old 1949 pp6v65 monoblock and old se6L6.

KevWind · #33 02-25-2018, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TerryC

You guys are awesome, thank you all so much for all well thought out replies. I don't know many guitar players in real life so having somewhere online to come for advice is so nice.

So I had a chance to go to a local shop and play some guitars today and I think I can narrow down my preferences.
-I think I prefer a shorter scale. This actually surprised me, as in the acoustic world I lean more towards long scale, but for playing with bends, hammer-ons, and bluesy sorts of stuff, the Gibson scale just felt proper.
-As to sound, I didn't quite understand what was meant by calling a tone "thick" but I think I get it now, and the darker, thicker LP tone sounded awesome to my ears. I liked an SG I tried as well, but I kept going back to the LPs as my favourites.
-I favoured the Gibson necks as well; some of the fenders I was playing felt like the necks were too thin, and coupled with the thinner nut it just wasn't quite as comfortable.

Thus: I think I want a Les Paul -- they just felt right. I definitely didn't realize they were so heavy, but as I'll be playing sitting down, this doesn't really bother me.

I wish money wasn't such a factor, but I think I'll have to set my upper budget at around $800 USD. This isn't set in stone, and it could be pushed a tad given waiting awhile longer, but also if I could get away with spending even less I'd be very happy. I'd prefer to buy new, just because I don't have any experience evaluating used electric guitars and would be afraid of getting ripped off, but I'm not necessarily opposed to buying used, as it seems that by deciding to go in the LP direction, anything I can do to stretch my dollars will be a big help.

Based on today, I think what it's going to come down to is whether or not to go with a high-end Epiphone or a low-end Gibson.
-I tried an Epi LP 100 and wasn't crazy about it.
-The Epi LP Standard and Standard Pro were much better. Felt good, sounded good. The standard pro has coil-tapping switches, and while having more options has appeal, I definitely preferred the usual humbucker configuration.
-Tried a couple different Gibson studios, and was very pleased with how they felt and sounded (wish they came in a burst though!). Similar experience with a faded T model. I liked the Gibsons better, but I don't know if there was enough of an improvement to justify the difference in cost.
-I intentionally didn't stray into the high-end LP realm because I didn't want to fall in love... maybe some day, but for right now the cost is just too prohibitive.

As to amps, I didn't experiment with very many -- I got so caught up trying guitars that I didn't want to test my better half's patience any longer. To those that mention having a headphone jack, I couldn't agree more, and think that for my situation it's a must-have. I was playing with a Fender Mustang 1 v2 as per Bob's recommendation and felt like this amp would give me everything I could possibly need, and at an affordable price. I'll definitely shop around some more, but I feel some-what comfortable that that amp will be the one.

So given your leaning towards LP- ish let me suggest one more guitar option to perhaps consider trying next time out (if you haven't already)
And that is PRS and in your budget range the SE lineup has a number of choices and most are either straight Humbucker with a few offering split coil . Now I believe most experienced players will tell you they have a sound of their own, not really classic LP or Strat or Telly. But the are very playable and very well made for money spent

The reason I mentioned PRS is (well for one, now I am bias

) and because my journey a year and 1/2 ago was very similar to yours.
I went out looking to get into electric and had decided to go out and determine specifically if I preferred Gibson or Fender after several months of playing many guitars I discovered for me playing a classic and that (classic tone) was not as important as playing what felt really good and sound really good (to me).
In the end I bought a PRS as my first electric

rdawsoniii · #34 02-25-2018, 10:11 AM

I don’t have much to add to the many great suggestions already presented.

You can buy a lot of guitar for $800. No, not a brand new Gibson LP, but there are a lot of fantastic guitars being made today at affordable prices. At your budget (and buying new), these are primarily foreign made, but that no longer carries the stigma it once did.

You are doing the right thing....trying out different types of guitars and figuring out what works best.

As for an amp....I have both a Bugera V5 and Fender Mustang I (I am basically a beginner). I don’t care for the Mustang. Sure, there is a lot to play around with, but you probably won’t use 95% of it. I always end up coming back to the Bugera. It just sound good. And at a great price point of $199 new (less any discounts which are readily available. Also, it can be played at lower volumes.

You really don’t need a bunch of fancy doo-dads and effects, as Steve D. already mentioned. Search youtube for a video of Joe Bonamassa showing all the different sounds you can get on a clean amp setting using only the volume and tone knobs. Start there.

maxtheaxe · #35 02-26-2018, 01:23 AM

I'll agree with the suggestions for a MIM Strat or Tele, PRS SE series; I'm also quite dfond of the Ibanez Artist re-issues with Tri-sound switching for the pickups. Another one I've seen at very affordable prices are used Gibson SGs...as already said, there are some really nice, less expensive options for electric. I might tend to favor the MIM Fenders for the simple fact that it's very easy to upgrade the pickups down the road...you can take your $400-$500 guitar and put anything you want on there.

As to the amp, it's true that there are some really affordable tube amps as well, but I'm going to play devil's advocate and recommend that you get a used Line 6 POD kidney bean version 2.0 (less than $100.00) and a mono-block type amp that's just straight, clean amplification. I say this for the simple reason that you really aren't going to know what inspires you until you've had time to spend trying some different tone/feel combinations. The POD's amp models are really quite convincing...and you have 32 of them to mess with, everything from Vox British class-A chime to Marshall madness to spanky clean Fenders and even a plain old tube mic-preamp, along with a decent array of FX and a global reverb. That should keep you busy for a good, long time and not break your wallet. I still gig with mine...I can get any sound I want...completely versatile.

One more thing...part of the secret of getting truly convincing tones from modelling amps, especially at apartment volume levels, is a good compressor. I have a Boss CS-3 stomp-box compressor that I bought right after they came out with this model more than 20 years ago...really makes it all come together. It's also practically mandatory for decent clean tones.

Also, don't skimp on cables...it really does make a big difference to your tone if you use higher-quality cables.

Nama Ensou · #36 02-26-2018, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TerryC

Because I'm looking to do this on a budget, I'm most interested in the more affordable models. That said, I don't want to buy a guitar that I'll be wanting to replace right away.

Number one rule for people on a budget is to buy used gear. If you shop around you can get a $1,000 guitar for $300-700 and sell it for what you paid later down the road if you decide you don't like it. More bang for your buck.

Listen to the opinions stated here, but very, very importantly, at first opportunity go to the some music stores and pawn shops and play as many guitars as you can, preferably both with a strap standing and sitting down without one so that you can determine which body shapes and neck profiles feel best to you. It doesn't matter what others feel, it's up to you to determine your own ergonomic preferences and filter the input of others through those requirements.

imwjl · #37 02-26-2018, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nama Ensou

Number one rule for people on a budget is to buy used gear. If you shop around you can get a $1,000 guitar for $300-700 and sell it for what you paid later down the road if you decide you don't like it. More bang for your buck.

Listen to the opinions stated here, but very, very importantly, at first opportunity go to the some music stores and pawn shops and play as many guitars as you can, preferably both with a strap standing and sitting down without one so that you can determine which body shapes and neck profiles feel best to you. It doesn't matter what others feel, it's up to you to determine your own ergonomic preferences and filter the input of others through those requirements.

Very good point. Twice in the GAS journey I came across mint and near mint USA Fenders that also had expert setup. For Gibson shoppers, a store that sells mostly used in my area always gives a better impression of Gibson guitars than the most common outlet Guitar Center because all the guitars have been on setup table.

There are so many of the most common Fender and Gibson models that it's almost crazy to buy new unless a rather special or limited production model. You have to wonder if Fender and Gibson have challenges just to sell new against all the used guitars out there.

wrathfuldeity · #38 02-26-2018, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxtheaxe

I'll agree with the suggestions for a MIM Strat or Tele, PRS SE series; I'm also quite dfond of the Ibanez Artist re-issues with Tri-sound switching for the pickups. Another one I've seen at very affordable prices are used Gibson SGs...as already said, there are some really nice, less expensive options for electric. I might tend to favor the MIM Fenders for the simple fact that it's very easy to upgrade the pickups down the road...you can take your $400-$500 guitar and put anything you want on there.

As to the amp, it's true that there are some really affordable tube amps as well, but I'm going to play devil's advocate and recommend that you get a used Line 6 POD kidney bean version 2.0 (less than $100.00) and a mono-block type amp that's just straight, clean amplification. I say this for the simple reason that you really aren't going to know what inspires you until you've had time to spend trying some different tone/feel combinations. The POD's amp models are really quite convincing...and you have 32 of them to mess with, everything from Vox British class-A chime to Marshall madness to spanky clean Fenders and even a plain old tube mic-preamp, along with a decent array of FX and a global reverb. That should keep you busy for a good, long time and not break your wallet. I still gig with mine...I can get any sound I want...completely versatile.

One more thing...part of the secret of getting truly convincing tones from modelling amps, especially at apartment volume levels, is a good compressor. I have a Boss CS-3 stomp-box compressor that I bought right after they came out with this model more than 20 years ago...really makes it all come together. It's also practically mandatory for decent clean tones.

Also, don't skimp on cables...it really does make a big difference to your tone if you use higher-quality cables.

^This was pretty much my path (definitely buy used) but went with Vox Tonelab tt and many things have come and gone...and now back to it. Tube buffered analog pedal board with vox tonelab on a loop switch into a wet/dry 1949 pp6v6 monoblock and 1950's se6L6. Yes you want two tube amps with some cab separation that will produce a huge field effect at relative low volume or not...lol.

HesNot · #39 02-26-2018, 01:11 PM

Lots of good suggestions thus far so I'll only add:

PRS SE - just a second on the PRS SE guitars - really well made instruments with a unique voicing that is at this point their own. Certainly to my hands more on the Gibson than Fender side of things feel wise.

Ibanez Talman - I have a TM303m and it is a great guitar that I got used for a song. I've owned teles and this gets the tele tone - the pickups are maybe a bit thin stock but easily remedied. Only if you're interested in a tele option although it sounds like you're on a LP trajectory.

As for amps:

Boss Katana - these sound great and are I think a little more easily accessed as a beginner - my brother in law and son both have mustangs (I and II) respectively. My 16yo son digs it and is happy tweaking. My 40yo brother in law just gets irritated at the menus options etc... YMMV

Davis Webb · #40 02-26-2018, 08:20 PM

My vote is the Classic Vibe Strat or Tele or both.

For amp and effects, the 50 Watt Boss Katana.

Next........

"$350 buys you a Chinese-made Squier that may rival MIM and MIA in craftsmanship, but will suffer in hardware and electronics. "

The CV series have Alnico III or V pickups, the MIM have inferior quality ceramics. CV has surpassed MIM.

TerryC · #41 02-26-2018, 08:30 PM

Yet again I just want to say thank you to all those who've taken the time to reply -- you guys are awesome.
As a further update, I think I'm homing in on the guitar.
I played a 2018 Les Paul Tribute yesterday and it was simply everything I wanted... except for the price. But upon reflection, I've decided to hold off making a purchase and save a little more for a guitar that I know will inspire me to play it, rather than buy something that I only sort of like purely out of impatience. However, if I can find a good deal on a used one it'll shorten my wait considerably. So now my question is, other than checking the neck and simply plugging it in and making sure all the switches work, is there anything I should know about evaluating used electric guitars? Any particular tests I should be doing before forking over a stack of bills?

As to amps, the mustang, katana, and roland all look good. I think I'm going to wait until I have my actual guitar in hand and then try and find the specific amp that best speaks to me.

Steve DeRosa · #42 02-26-2018, 09:00 PM

You might find this of interest:

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Gibson/2...tric-Guitar.gc

Hotspur · #43 02-27-2018, 01:30 PM

Couple of thoughts:

First, yes, PRS SEs are very good guitars. The SE245 is their version of a Les Paul. I have a Chris Robertson (which is a variant of the SE 245). There's a Zach Myers which is a semi-hollowbody version of it as well. Worth checking out.

There are frequently good deals for faded Les Paul Fadeds in the 700-800 range. I think someone literally just posted one on the forum. So if you are patient you can usually get one for that price. BUT: Gibson's quality control is notoriously kinda dicey. You really do want to play the instrument you're going to buy ahead of time if you can. A great Gibson - even an inexpensive one - can be a great instrument. A mediocre one can be a real dog.

There's an Anderton's video online where they try to decide between the most expensive epiphany and the cheapest gibson, and come out in favor of the Gibson.

On Amps, I have a recommendation: The Vox AV series. If you're just playing at home, the AV15 should be fine, if not, the AV30 is still crazy reasonably priced for what you get. That thing is crazy versatile and has a unique design that lets you get real power-tube saturation at bedroom volumes, which is a problem with most pure tube amps: your tonal options are limited.

RP · #44 02-28-2018, 08:19 AM

I agree that for the non-electric player, the realm of electric guitars is very dizzying. I'm not an electric guy but have gone back and forth on the desire to own and learn to play electric. To that end I've owned a number of guitars and amps of varying brands but mostly Fenders. Given that your musical tastes and guitar comfort may very well differ from mine, I'll try to save you a bunch of time and money.

I've owned several MIM Strats and Telecasters, and believe that these represent excellent lower cost alternatives. However, my current and hopefully longterm electric combination is a Fender Eric Clapton Strat and a Fender Blues Jr. NOS tube amp. Of everything that I've owned over the years, this combination just feels and sounds oh-so right to me. Waited until Musicians Friend had one of their sales which happens pretty frequently and took the plunge. It was kind of pricey, but I would have saved a lot of time and money if I had landed on this combination in the first place...

The Old Gaffer · #45 02-28-2018, 04:27 PM

I wouldn't sweat the details now. You don't know what you like and you really can't predict how your tastes will change. I wouldn't scrimp on the guitar and recommend buying used so your initial investment won't inhibit your choice to change in the future. That said I would look for a used G&L Tribute ASAT of some sort, which you should be able to find below $300. They are great guitars that will not have to upgrade for a long while, if at all. The same could be said of an Epiphone Dot or Wildkat or PRS SE models.

There is generally a boat load of used amps available just about everywhere. Find a cheap one of which you like the sound. I would recommend one with an earphone jack.