Guitars and modeling amps

[AX17609]

I've been thinking of firing up my electric guitar technique again, which has me thinking about equipment. Everything has changed so much since my band days that I hardly know where to begin.

One basic question concerns "modeling" amps that are capable of sounding like just about any other amp. I'm thinking particularly of the Positive Grid Spark, which seems like a pretty ideal practice amp.

When you use an amp like this, does it really matter what guitar you plug into it? I'm thinking that the amp effect would probably overwhelm whatever natural tone the guitar had.

[Glennwillow]

I don't think it matters what guitar you plug into a good amp. I plug all mine into the same one. You can tweak the relative balance to suit your taste.

Best of luck and have fun!

- Glenn

[rmp]

the Spark is pretty unique, it's a modeler but it goes a bit further as a teaching aid

the app will demonstrate the chords that are being played while you're listening and playing along with a song. and it's all coming thru the amps speakers, plus you can jam along with backing tracks just for practice.

they have lots of different amp sounds and effect settings and it even has a setting for acoustic.

it is a learning curve with lots to tweak, if that's not your thing, then a more basic amp would be easier to use, and not as versatile sound wise unless you add some pedals for various effects

for the money it makes a nice practice rig.

people that have them, even experienced players, seem to like them

amp purists don't like the modelers as a rule, so you're going to get varying opinions from folks here


When you use an amp like this, does it really matter what guitar you plug into it? I'm thinking that the amp effect would probably overwhelm whatever natural tone the guitar had.

if you are using clean sound to moderate over driven tones,
the tonal characteristics will come thru.

once you start to saturate things with lots of overdrive/gain, and lots of effects, the tonal characteristics of the guitar will start to get lost.

[Bob Womack]

I don't know the Spark but I've been doing sessions on the Helix for several years now. One of the things that is necessary to working with most modelers is abandoning the idea of exactly, universally reproducing a particular amp in a particular moment. You have to understand that every little move of a microphone in front of an amp reveals a different sound. So. the builders find a good amp and model it at a particular moment and it will sound different from other amps in other circumstances.

However, when I record a part using a Tele and a modeled Fender Deluxe Reverb, clean, borderline, or dirty, you can't tell that it isn't a Tele and a DR. And use as a practice amp? I can sit in my rehearsal room and play through my modeler with a fully-developed sound, effects and all, at conversational levels. If my wife is asleep I can use the headphones.

I've put in the hours and come up with some really, really good patches and have come to prefer them to the wall of amps I have at home.

Bob

[jay42]

If you want to dig deep into opinions, I suggest The Gear Page sub-forum on Modelers et al.

For the most part, the character of an electric guitar should come through up to medium gain settings. That means, most electrics into a Big Muff are going to sound about the same coming out.

[ghostnote]

One thing I’ve found out about modelers is that the name of the patch is more of a reference point than an exact perfect copy. You can get an exact copy on a good modeler, but my point is that it’s not necessary - the patches are pretty cool on the new ones. In the early days of modeling, you’d get 3 or 4 useful things and a whole bunch of distorted crap. That’s no longer true. And on things like the Spark, you can tweak each patch til it sounds the way you want. I love modelers and use them as much as traditional amps. And the Spark amps are well worth checking out. I have both the Spark 40 and the Spark Mini, and they are functional, sound good, and loaded with usable features.

[Aspiring]

To the OPs question of does the guitar matter ... I have a Fractal Axe fx III and generally play clean to crunch. The pickups pickup position and guitars all sound quite different to me through it.

And there are limits in terms of how much the system can make one guitar sound similar to the others.

But I can assure you the snapdragon snapaxe portable guitar does not sound like my Colling I30. One nice thing about the modelers (I have a YamahaTHR30 as well) is that they have a variety of effects available in addition which is great for working on things without having to invest a ton in pedals.

I also like the fact that you can have presets that take you right back to a setting that you figured out a while ago.

[Mbroady]

I dropped off an older Hot Rod Deluxe at the shop today for repair. While in town I swung by guitar center to peruse the Acoustic room. While there I was able to take one of the MIM Strats and sample some of the modeling amps (Line 6 spider, Boss Katana, Fender mustang GT)

I was Pleasantly surprised by all of them. What surprised me the most was the response and dynamic range between soft and light attacks. This was always a short coming of modeling amps I’ve tried in the past.

I only used the one guitar but just like a tube amp, each pick up did have its own sound. I can see having one of these amps for low volume home use. For gigs and studio I’m not ready to let go of moving some air with a cranked tube amp.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by AX17609

I've been thinking of firing up my electric guitar technique again, which has me thinking about equipment. Everything has changed so much since my band days that I hardly know where to begin...

Before I start, let me say that I firmly believe modeling amps have their place: several years ago I worked with a guy who had done road time with one of the biggest-name acts in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, and swore by his first-generation Line 6 Pod Pro rack rig - and if you're a studio player/owner or Top 40 cover-band member who needs "that sound, right now" a modeler's about the easiest way I know to get it...

That said, if you're just getting back into the game after an extended hiatus I'd strongly recommend picking up where you left off - with a minimum of bells-&-whistles, no daunting learning curve, and where a solid "signature tone" that you can call your own is the name of the game; if, by your own admission, you're focused on re-acquiring your technique and overwhelmed by the plethora of options, IMO the last thing you need is another layer of complexities (menu scrolling, deep editing, etc.) standing in your way...

FYI along with the current generation of modeling gear has come a resurgence of interest in purist tube stuff - some of which offers surprisingly high tone/build quality at almost-too-good-to-be-true prices - and if you still have a cab or two lying around from your old band days, one of the new breed of low-power heads might just be your ticket back into the electric world. I've been using one of these lately:



https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...ss-a-tube-head

Plenty of volume/headroom/dynamic range for home practice (I customarily use large amps at moderate levels), enough grunt for band practice and small-venue gigs with a tasteful drummer - and if you're the kind of player who relies on touch and/or the guitar's controls to get your tone, you can easily play up to a 300-seat house when you engage the "Phat" control (this puppy can get real loud - you'll have no problem powering a 4x12" if you so choose). Best part is that you can score one of these little tone monsters for around $200 (or less, if you take advantage of one of the current Christmas sales) - and if you still feel you need something more, there's enough clean tone in there to make for a solid all-tube pedal platform; here's an in-depth hands-on review:

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...57#post7081057

BTW, that guy with the Line 6 - he went out and bought a Bugera V22 1x12" tube combo for his studio after hearing/playing through mine...

[raysachs]

Originally Posted by AX17609

I'm thinking particularly of the Positive Grid Spark, which seems like a pretty ideal practice amp.

When you use an amp like this, does it really matter what guitar you plug into it? I'm thinking that the amp effect would probably overwhelm whatever natural tone the guitar had.

A modeling amp emulates a particular amplifier sound (or group of amplifier sounds) but the guitar you plug into it still matters. Just as a Strat will sound different from a Les Paul, which will sound different from a Rickenbacker when they’re all plugged into the same Fender amp or Marshall amp, so will they when plugged into a Spark. A Strat with single coils in position 2 is ALWAYS gonna sound different from a Les Paul with humbuckers in any of its three switch positions. Regardless of what amp it’s plugged into or that amp’s settings. So get the amp that makes sense to you, but don’t ignore the guitar - it matters too…

-Ray

[DavidE]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

I've put in the hours and come up with some really, really good patches and have come to prefer them to the wall of amps I have at home.

Bob

First, the regular Spark I have is fun, but it's not in the same league as a Helix soundwise.

Second, are any of your presets uploaded to the L6 site? I'd love to give them a try.

[1neeto]

Originally Posted by AX17609

I've been thinking of firing up my electric guitar technique again, which has me thinking about equipment. Everything has changed so much since my band days that I hardly know where to begin.

One basic question concerns "modeling" amps that are capable of sounding like just about any other amp. I'm thinking particularly of the Positive Grid Spark, which seems like a pretty ideal practice amp.

When you use an amp like this, does it really matter what guitar you plug into it? I'm thinking that the amp effect would probably overwhelm whatever natural tone the guitar had.

On my second Spark. The first one I impulse sold to a friend, and missed it enough to buy another one. In fact, this is the very first time I’ve bought the same piece of gear twice, so that says something. It truly is the ultimate practice amp, that not only sounds great, but there’s nothing like it in the market as a teaching aid. The app is quite seamless, even a boomer can figure it out. And even if you’re not into using apps, the panel itself has good tones. Oh, it’s also an absolutely killer Bluetooth speaker. Go for it.

[Vognell]

Modern modelling amps attempt to emulate the dynamics of the components and signal paths of reference real-world amps and pedals. The software tries to capture how the amp, it's circuitry, tubes, and effects (pre and post) interact with each other. The type of guitar you use, the pickups, native acoustic properties, etc. come through pretty much unscathed.

I'll +1 the spark amp. I have an Egnator Tweaker amp and a 2x12 cabinet stocked with celestions, not high end, but it sounds great...when you crank it. I like the convenience of the Spark, as well as the freedom to get high-gain, high-volume dynamics without noise complaints from my neighbors (or my wife).

As others have mentioned, the integration with youtube backing tracks and the autojam function makes it a great practice tool. Easy to move from room to room.

The Yamaha THR amps also have a good rep, and that reputation is well deserved.

I also use the helix stomp, and can't say enough good things about it. Paired to a relatively inexpensive FRFR speaker (I use the headrush FRFR112), I have set up virtual rigs for both electric and acoustic guitars.... including "bi-amped" systems where I am modeling two amps at the same time (my favorite is a fender bassman and twin). Got the bassman with a bit of drive on it, keep the twin clean, and use a pedal to adjust the mix between the two. One of my favorite patches, as I can easily fine tune the clean/dirty blend without altering the volume too much.

Point being, the helix systems give you a LOT of flexibility. I use acoustic impulse responses to get some pretty natural sounding patches for my acoustic electrics, have a nice handful of patches for the electric that I can swap between pretty quickly. You can also optimize your favorite patches for different guitars, so that you can use more or less the same amp and pedal models, but have two patches set up for say, your les paul and your strat that are pretty much the same, but tweaked for the different styles of pickups.

The HX Stomp is also a great recording interface for electrics and acoustic electrics. Headphone output is great for quiet, late night practice sessions. Also includes a looper function.

That said, the spark is portable, practical, has great feature for practice, and is an inexpensive entry point if you are just getting back into the electric game. HX stomp is, IMHO, the ultimate multitool, but more complicated to use, and somewhat more expensive... especially when you include the cab... which also nukes the portability factor.

Lots of options out there, even more opinions... but that was my 2 cents on it..

[davidd]

I recommend a Line 6 Pod Go. It has many of the high end Helix capabilities at an affordable price point. Coupled with a FRFR powered speaker or through the return of a clean power amp and you are ready to rock. I've never bonded with any modeling amps. If you want to dabble get a cheap used Fender Mustang amp to try out. My feeling is to keep everything separate because any high end modeling amp will cost a fortune if it needs major out of warranty repairs.

[Bob Womack]

Originally Posted by DavidE

First, the regular Spark I have is fun, but it's not in the same league as a Helix soundwise.

Second, are any of your presets uploaded to the L6 site? I'd love to give them a try.

I haven't. I am remarkably isolated in the studio.

To the OP's question about guitars making a difference: Absolutely. I choose my guitars based upon their sounds and the differences between them have profound impact on the way the guitars sit in the mix. A Tele is a Tele, an ES-335 is an ES-335, a Strat is a Strat, and a Les Paul is a Les Paul.

Bob