Choosing a classical guitar

[ObiWanSymbian]

Hi there,

I am primarily an acoustic guitar player, but... just cannot resist classical guitars. I will probably get one at some point in the future (closer rather than distant), especially since my wife strongly supports the idea - she's so much into the sound of classicals (I start to like them more and more).

I live in Poland and will be bying my guitar here. We have a decent selection of manufacturers including instruments from Spain, made in Spain or China, Yamaha is quite big here and the Central European manufacturers (the Czechs and Slovaks) are winnig larger and larger portions of the market, because their instruments (Dowina or Strunal) are just great (just take a look at my signature).

I have certain questions:

1. Sound-wise I like the classicals made in Spaind - deep, sweet and just... classical. I also like some flamenco instruments - beter playability than a typical classical, but just a bit too flat for me. The Spaniards, however, seem not to pay enough attention to details of finish. The guitars have, well, maybe not many, but some irritating finish flaws - lacquer or binding... What is your observation?

2. What are the standards for nut width. At first, most of the necks seem to be just to wide and bulky.

3. What are the standards for string action - I know it can be nowhere near an acoustic, but still most of the guitars seem to have action which can be measured in miles...;-)

4. Are some classicals equipped with truss rod? Does it help?

5. I was thinking about buying a cross-over, but...: They are usually with cut-aways and pick-ups - don't like/need them. The 14 frets to the body make the guitar loose all it's sweetness...

Any piece of advice will be appreciated.

[riffmeister]

Originally Posted by ObiWanSymbian

2. What are the standards for nut width. At first, most of the necks seem to be just to wide and bulky.

3. What are the standards for string action - I know it can be nowhere near an acoustic, but still most of the guitars seem to have action which can be measured in miles...;-)

4. Are some classicals equipped with truss rod? Does it help?

2. Pretty much the "standard" for classical guitars is 52 mm width at the nut, with 42 mm string spacing at the nut and 57-58 mm string spacing at the saddle.

3. Pretty much the "standard" string height at the 12th fret, measured from the top of the fret to the bottom of the string, is 3 mm for the 1st string and 4 mm for the 6th string. Personally, I like it just a little lower, maybe 0.5 mm lower. If you have a strong right hand and play loud, the 3 mm and 4 mm height will probably be better to avoid rattling of the strings on the frets.

4. Traditionally, the classical guitar does not have a truss rod. Some classical guitars have a carbon fiber rod built into them to stiffen the neck. And some classical guitars do have a truss rod......it is not a bad thing.

[BernebeM50]

I started with a Yamaha G-231 II classical guitar that I bought used over 20 years ago and I still play it sometimes. I have replaced it with a Taurus model 56 guitar that has a little clearer tone and has a narrower neck (the Yamaha is quite thick). The Yamaha is quite close in tone and volume. I also have recently purchased a Bernabe M-50 classical guitar that has a richer, balanced tone and is easier to play than the other two. It plays well in the upper registers and has nice over tones. It also cost 15x as much as the Yamaha.

I find Yamaha guitars to be very well made and have decent sound, especially for the price. I don't regret buying my Taurus or Bernabe, though. I was very lucky to find them. I think they will be the last classical guitars for me.

[redir]

I've built several classical guitars and own several old ones including a Contreras from 1960's none of which have truss rods and none of which have problems because of it. IMHO it's just not necessary. I do put a carbon bar in mine just in case but it's really not necessary.

Action on a classical is typically set high. Higher then what most who play steel strings like. That doesn't mean it cannot go lower but you lose power and clarity as you approach the frets. You should be able to get a flamenco type low action on a classical if that is what you are after.

The one Spanish made guitar I have does indeed have some interesting finish flaws but the tone and dynamics of the guitar trumps anything about it's looks. The audience doesn't come to look at your guitar they just want to hear it played Plus no one but you will notice anyway.

[Norman2]

Originally Posted by ObiWanSymbian

Hi there,

I am primarily an acoustic guitar player, but... just cannot resist classical guitars. I will probably get one at some point in the future (closer rather than distant), especially since my wife strongly supports the idea - she's so much into the sound of classicals (I start to like them more and more).

I live in Poland and will be bying my guitar here. We have a decent selection of manufacturers including instruments from Spain, made in Spain or China, Yamaha is quite big here and the Central European manufacturers (the Czechs and Slovaks) are winnig larger and larger portions of the market, because their instruments (Dowina or Strunal) are just great (just take a look at my signature).

I have certain questions:

1. Sound-wise I like the classicals made in Spaind - deep, sweet and just... classical. I also like some flamenco instruments - beter playability than a typical classical, but just a bit too flat for me. The Spaniards, however, seem not to pay enough attention to details of finish. The guitars have, well, maybe not many, but some irritating finish flaws - lacquer or binding... What is your observation?

2. What are the standards for nut width. At first, most of the necks seem to be just to wide and bulky.

3. What are the standards for string action - I know it can be nowhere near an acoustic, but still most of the guitars seem to have action which can be measured in miles...;-)

4. Are some classicals equipped with truss rod? Does it help?

5. I was thinking about buying a cross-over, but...: They are usually with cut-aways and pick-ups - don't like/need them. The 14 frets to the body make the guitar loose all it's sweetness...

Any piece of advice will be appreciated.

Classical Guitars made in Europe sound just as good as those made in Spain.
I suggest you take a look at the classical Kremona Guitars that are made in
Bulgaria. These are excellent Guitars of very high quality. The important things
a good classical guitar must have are: Solid top Spruce or Cedar. Solid Indian
Rosewood sides and back, ebony fingerboard and spanish fan bracing. These are must have things on the guitar you get if you want to have the quality
sound of nylon strings. Good Luck in your search.
Norman2
PS. A lot of classical guitars in the 300.00 to 500.00 have laminate sides
and the difference in sound is big. I have a Kremona Flamenco and a Cordoba C10 and my action is 2.7mm at the 12th fret.

[Bikewer]

Sounds like you might be interested in one of the newer "crossover" instruments. These are set up to be a bit friendly to those of us who are more comfortable with steel strings or electrics.
Narrower necks, slight radius to the fretboard, etc. Most are acoustic-electric.

I just bought a Manuel Rodriguez model myself. There are many available.. In most price ranges.

[ObiWanSymbian]

Thank you all for the replies.
@Norman2 - so, you say that in the classical department there is no such thing as a good sounding laminated B/S?

[Norman2]

Originally Posted by ObiWanSymbian

Thank you all for the replies.
@Norman2 - so, you say that in the classical department there is no such thing as a good sounding laminated B/S?

Hi, No, what I mean is that the high quality classical guitars all have solid back
and sides. Most of the mid priced 300-500 dollar guitars have laminated sides
and backs. These sound OK but the solids have a much deeper and clearer
sound plus they have better sustain. If you are at a guitar shop test both
and you will hear the difference. Yes, you can be very happy with the sound
of a laminate side and back guitar. But if your budget permits, get the solids
Regards
Norman

[Dafiryde]

So what do you all think about the LaPatrie Collection, $700 new, solid I/Rosewood back and sides with cedar top made in Canada.

[Johan Madsen]

Originally Posted by ObiWanSymbian

Hi there,

I am primarily an acoustic guitar player, but... just cannot resist classical guitars. I will probably get one at some point in the future (closer rather than distant), especially since my wife strongly supports the idea - she's so much into the sound of classicals (I start to like them more and more).

I live in Poland and will be bying my guitar here. We have a decent selection of manufacturers including instruments from Spain, made in Spain or China, Yamaha is quite big here and the Central European manufacturers (the Czechs and Slovaks) are winnig larger and larger portions of the market, because their instruments (Dowina or Strunal) are just great (just take a look at my signature).

I have certain questions:

1. Sound-wise I like the classicals made in Spaind - deep, sweet and just... classical. I also like some flamenco instruments - beter playability than a typical classical, but just a bit too flat for me. The Spaniards, however, seem not to pay enough attention to details of finish. The guitars have, well, maybe not many, but some irritating finish flaws - lacquer or binding... What is your observation?

2. What are the standards for nut width. At first, most of the necks seem to be just to wide and bulky.

3. What are the standards for string action - I know it can be nowhere near an acoustic, but still most of the guitars seem to have action which can be measured in miles...;-)

4. Are some classicals equipped with truss rod? Does it help?

5. I was thinking about buying a cross-over, but...: They are usually with cut-aways and pick-ups - don't like/need them. The 14 frets to the body make the guitar loose all it's sweetness...

Any piece of advice will be appreciated.

Here's a my Cordoba Maple Fusion, 48 nut width, very comfy, 14 frets to the body cutaway and pickup, but still sweet sounding and exceptional intonation. I have set up the action rather low. It has a truss rod which is an important point for me. I love it, and could only recommend it.

[ObiWanSymbian]

Great tune, smooth performance, but, above all a very sweet sounding guitar. It retained the sweetness of a classical.
Thank you for this link.

[Johan Madsen]

Originally Posted by ObiWanSymbian

Great tune, smooth performance, but, above all a very sweet sounding guitar. It retained the sweetness of a classical.
Thank you for this link.

Thanks, you were also talking about Czechs manufacturers, I haven't tried Furch's nylon string guitars, but their steel strings are stunning. Their nylon series have 45 nut width, I would give them a try if I could

[madhatter]

Originally Posted by ObiWanSymbian

Hi there,

I am primarily an acoustic guitar player, but... just cannot resist classical guitars. I will probably get one at some point in the future (closer rather than distant), especially since my wife strongly supports the idea - she's so much into the sound of classicals (I start to like them more and more).

I live in Poland and will be bying my guitar here. We have a decent selection of manufacturers including instruments from Spain, made in Spain or China, Yamaha is quite big here and the Central European manufacturers (the Czechs and Slovaks) are winnig larger and larger portions of the market, because their instruments (Dowina or Strunal) are just great (just take a look at my signature).

I have certain questions:

1. Sound-wise I like the classicals made in Spaind - deep, sweet and just... classical. I also like some flamenco instruments - beter playability than a typical classical, but just a bit too flat for me. The Spaniards, however, seem not to pay enough attention to details of finish. The guitars have, well, maybe not many, but some irritating finish flaws - lacquer or binding... What is your observation?

2. What are the standards for nut width. At first, most of the necks seem to be just to wide and bulky.

3. What are the standards for string action - I know it can be nowhere near an acoustic, but still most of the guitars seem to have action which can be measured in miles...;-)

4. Are some classicals equipped with truss rod? Does it help?

5. I was thinking about buying a cross-over, but...: They are usually with cut-aways and pick-ups - don't like/need them. The 14 frets to the body make the guitar loose all it's sweetness...

Any piece of advice will be appreciated.

just play a couple hundred guitars in your price range and you will find one you like.

[Mr. Scott]

I think when it comes to nylon strung guitars, we in Europe are better placed than our American cousins as, in my opinion, the best ones are made over here. And by the way, Spain is usually accepted as being part of Europe!
I have played quite a few guitars over the years from Germany, Poland and especially Spain and you are right about the Spanish, their finishes sometimes leave a bit to be desired. A guy at one of the Spanish Guitar Centres over here once pointed that out to me saying that they seem to be able to "throw anything together" and it would sound good. Maybe an exaggeration but from my experience there is something in it.
Someone has already mentioned the Czech Kremona factory and thay make good reasonably priced instruments, in fact I have one of their Coco ukuleles which is an excellent instrument. The Alhambra range is also worth looking at for the same reasons.
As to the construction of modern Classical guitars they are, with the possible exception of Greg Smallman's instruments, fairly lightly built. They do not have truss rods and the action is usually quite high compared to a steel strung guitar. This allows volume and projection, although because of the string-types used, does not usually make them hard to play. And for the best tone, solid woods all round is your best bet.
Hope that is a bit of help, and good luck in your quest.

[Norman2]

Mr Scott, You are totally correct in your analysis. By the way Kremonas are
built in Bulgaria. I own Fiesta FC and I am extremely happy with it.
Regards
Norman2