Setting Up A Resonator

[copperhead]

I bought a used Johnson JR-200 Resonator for $70. I'd like to fix it up with minimum cost.

It is in overall good to very good condition. I like the 1.75" wide round neck and the action is good. It sounds fairly good, but I've never owned a resonator before and don't know much about them.

There are a couple of things I noticed:

1. The spider and cone are about 1/4" off center and it's not possible to access the adjusting screw.

2. It appears someone has changed the saddle. What came with it is very crudely made and not fitted properly. The existing saddle is medium brown (I have never seen a brown saddle before??) I have no idea what it's made of. In cross-section, it's a light brown. All bone saddle, and plastic ones, are cream colour, from what I've seen.

So, I plan on replacing the saddle and seeing why it is off-center.

Questions:

-What material is the best to use for a resonator saddle?

-Is it possible to lower the string action to that of a well set-up acoustic?

Thnak you. I will reply when I can. I do not have Internet access readily available.

[Silly Moustache]

Hi, I don't know this instrument but google images suggest it is a spider type resonator (i.e. like a Dobro, rather than a National Biscuit style?)

If so, please explain more about the saddle being off centre - do you mean that it is "wonky" - not square to the strings ? If so that is easy to fix.

On real Dobros the saddle is usually two thin pieces of maple, or ebony, and these are the main way of adjusting action.

To get at the gubbins - you will need to loosen and romove the strings from the tail-piece, (use a capo to hold them to the neck if you don't want to replace them)

Then carefully unscrew the (12?) securing screws on the dustbin lid.
Then you can remove it, and access the spider and cone.

The screw in the middle of the split saddle actually controls how tight the spider is screwed to the cone, and I'd not mess with that unless you really know what you are doing as you can damage the cone.

To put the saddle parallel to the frets, simply turn the spider and cone assemble gently within its circular seat by gripping the spider.

GENTLY is the word. Be VERY careful not to bend or twist the cone.

NOTE: Don't touch the cone itself if you can help it - they are VERY fragile.

When reseated, re-attach the dustbin lid being VERY careful not to over tighten the screws so that they bore out the holes. If you do, the use of a piece of toothpick might resolve the issue.

Hopefully once restringing the intonation will be better, however, you may find that you have some rattles - although it may well settle down once the string pressure on the spider/cone assemble settles into the seating.

Hope that helps. I make no guarantees - my current dobro was made by Gibson and it had all sorts of intonation problems because they made 'em wrong to start with.

[copperhead]

S.M.: The strings are fine and straight. But the saddle is in two pieces, one longer than the other. The long one almost covers the access to the adjustment screw. That and the entire Dobro spider and cone are off-center, make it not possible to adjust.

The saddle is crudely made and the 'G' string is not easy to tune. There are burrs and filings sticking out of the crudely cut slots for the strings.

I like the sound of this resonator and have recorded several songs. It actually sounds better when recorded than in real life.

[Cone Head]

Originally Posted by copperhead

-What material is the best to use for a resonator saddle?

The traditional material (and the best sound to my ears) is maple.
In recent years there has been some kind of obsession with ebony-capped maple saddles, but the ebony just seems to add a shrillness that I don't appreciate - but this is purely subjective.
Bone or plastic are not appropriate materials for this application.

Originally Posted by copperhead

-Is it possible to lower the string action to that of a well set-up acoustic?

Yes, but it is entirely dependent on the neck angle.
If you have sufficient neck angle to lower the action to your liking while maintaining a good saddle-to-tailpiece break angle, you will not have a problem.
Unfortunately many inexpensive Chinese dobro copies have a very shallow neck angle, and reducing the saddle height until the action is to your liking may reduce the saddle-to-tailpiece break angle, which in turn creates insufficient pressure on the cone. This results in a buzzing cone and reduced volume.

[copperhead]

Silly Moustache & Cone Head: Thank you for the feedback. I've already learned some things. Yes, I noticed the neck angle may not lend itself to lowering the strings.

Yes, this is a Chinese instrument.

Apparently, the saddle may be the maple covered bone, or some kind of maple.

I will not be able to respond til later. Have to leave the library.

[Rob Anderlik]

Just to share a few observations from playing different resonator guitars over the years.

1) It's not all about the parts! I've seen/played two identical guitars with the exact same materials used in the set up and the results (at least in this case) could not have been more different! There is an art to doing a good set up and there are very few people (even among professional guitar techs) who are experienced with them.

2) It's just an opinion but having played guitars with a variety of materials used for saddles - all maple, maple capped with ebony, maple capped with ebonex - my experience is that maple saddles sound much thinner than ebony or ebonex capped saddles. By comparison ebony/ebonex capped saddles have a fuller, richer sound.

2) The points of contact are critical - the spider legs need to be even and sit flush on the cone. The cone needs to sit on the ledge in a relaxed state. The break angles at the nut and the saddle should be maximized to create good string tension which loads the cone and helps it to vibrate with maximum efficiency. If you know how to cut good string slots go for it. But I've seen a lot of resonator guitars with poorly cut string slots which definitely affected how the guitar sounded/played.

[rockabilly69]

some good info here....

http://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Online...tar_Setup.html

[blue]

Originally Posted by Rob Anderlik

2) It's just an opinion but having played guitars with a variety of materials used for saddles - all maple, maple capped with ebony, maple capped with ebonex - my experience is that maple saddles sound much thinner than ebony or ebonex capped saddles. By comparison ebony/ebonex capped saddles have a fuller, richer sound.

That's yet another difference between biscuits and tricones vs. spiders. I've heard some great sounding spiders with harder saddles. I've yet to hear a biscuit or tricone that I liked with anything but maple. And I've played carbon fiber, a complicated adjustable one, and ebony capped biscuits and full ebony tricone.

[Rob Anderlik]

Just want to clarify, we are talking about a resonator guitar with a spider, not a biscuit or tricone, correct?

[copperhead]

Rob,

That is correct. A spider with a single cone.

[copperhead]

I have decided to try Tyler Mountain's #TDS 214 ebony-over-maple saddles, if I can find a source besides PAY_PAL places.

I do plan on being careful with handling of the cone. It may require cleaning. I can see a layer of dust and junk on it.

When I bought this Jonson, it was dirty. The fret board had a light residue of mold. The rest was dusty and "gummy" feeling.

Cleaned up (outside, anyway) it does not look too bad.

Since owning it, I've played it twice as much as the D18 in Jan. & Feb. The neck and frets are very good. I find it easy to play and practice on.

[Rob Anderlik]

Good luck! Let us know how it turns out!

[copperhead]

After putting 175 hours on a set of Martin strings, I figured it was time to put new ones on.

I decided to remove the bell and clean the cone and record the serial number while the strings were off.

This has been a worth while learning experience, since I know not much at all about resonators.

What I learned:

1. The cone (single, 10.5" dia.) is full floating. Nothing but the strings pressing on the spider and a small (M3?) screw in the middle hold it in place in the recessed area design to contain the cone. The cone can move up or down, back and forth and side-to-side with just a light pressure, when the strings are on. I still am not sure of the theory of operation behind that adjustment screw. Is it an adjustment screw or just to hold the cone?

2. Cleaning the cone with just plain water helped the sound quite noticeably. Fortunately, the gummy residue and dust were water soluble. It cleaned up easily.

3. The cone is not very fragile. I could remove it, take it to the yard and throw it around like a Frisby and re-install it. I can't tell if the cone is "hand spun" or just a stamped piece of aluminum made to look like it's spun.

4. Going from .010 - .047's to .011 - .052's (Martin 4050) helped the sound of the guitar, especially the bass strings. Much better. Lots of life to this JR-200 it did not have before.

5. The maple saddles (.125" x .75" x 1.25" x 2) refused to budge with normal pull/push on them. So, until next time, the existing saddles stay put. I don't have replacements and have not been able to find a convenient, non-PayPal source for the ebony-over-maple saddles I'd like.

That's it for now. Overall, I'm pleased with the results of this learning experience.

[blue]

Originally Posted by copperhead

That's it for now. Overall, I'm pleased with the results of this learning experience.

Nothing beats hands on experience. I sacrificed many cheap Japanese guitars from 1978 to '81. But the end result was that during the pointy guitar era, I could do anything to anything and have it come out right.

Having a 70 dollar testbed is great. If you decide to get a nice one later, just think of what you will be able to do in trying setups, saddles, and pickups.