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  #46  
Old 08-18-2017, 09:48 AM
rokdog49 rokdog49 is offline
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Originally Posted by Neil K Walk View Post
Not to sound all high and mighty about religion but my younger son's kid's club at church made little care packages to keep in the car in case we come across someone begging at an intersection. Inside is a bottle of water, toiletries and snacks. No money, though.

As for the panhandlers on the street, does it really matter if they are a veteran or just mentally ill? Their situation is such that they need help. If you feel uncomfortable about handing out to the needy or taking the time to buy them some food then you should be looking at your own priorities IMO.

I disagree with your take entirely.
No one is bound by anything but their own heart and convictions for what they choose to do or not to do.
Nor IMHO should they be evaluated and advised out of hand by me. That would be rather pretentious on my part as I have plenty of shortcomings of my own.

As far as the homeless Vets go, there are services provided and while they are not perfect, they are accessible. All a vet has to do is go there for help.
If he can't get there, in many states, transportation assistance is offered.
My daughter and son-in-law are active in this area and it is a difficult challenge. The State of Ohio has one of the top outreach programs in the nation for assisting Veterans with all kinds of needs.

Many of these folks are struggling with mental issues and because of their "rights" they cannot be forced to do anything. Therein lies the dilemma.
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Last edited by rokdog49; 08-18-2017 at 09:58 AM.
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  #47  
Old 08-18-2017, 10:02 AM
Dirk Hofman Dirk Hofman is online now
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Originally Posted by rokdog49 View Post
I disagree with your take entirely.
No one is "bound' by anything but their own heart and convictions for what they choose to do or not to do.
Neither should they be evaluated and advised out of hand by me or anyone else.

As far as the homeless Vets go, there are services provided and while they are not perfect, they are accessible. All a vet has to do is go there for help.
If he can't get there, in many states, transportation assistance is offered.
My daughter and son-in-law are active in this area and it is a difficult challenge. The State of Ohio has one of the top outreach programs in the nation for assisting Veterans with all kinds of needs.

Many of these folks are struggling with mental issues and because of their "rights" they cannot be forced to do anything. Therein lies the dilemma.
Why put "bound" in quotes? Neil didn't use the word, it has a specific meaning. You changed the meaning, then argued against something he didn't say.

Certainly there was judgement in Neil's post, particularly at the end.

We are not bound by any law or force to behave any way towards panhandlers. I don't see how one can escape the judgement of others when someone asks for opinions on such a matter of ethics and personal morality. Responses asked for, responses given. No one was evaluating or advising you personally, but to say "anyone" else shouldn't get this goes against the ask in the thread.

I get that we don't always like the judgement of others in such matters. Sometimes we do, sometimes we don't. But people can and should opine in matters of ethics.
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  #48  
Old 08-18-2017, 11:59 AM
rokdog49 rokdog49 is offline
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Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman View Post
Why put "bound" in quotes? Neil didn't use the word, it has a specific meaning. You changed the meaning, then argued against something he didn't say.

Certainly there was judgement in Neil's post, particularly at the end.

We are not bound by any law or force to behave any way towards panhandlers. I don't see how one can escape the judgement of others when someone asks for opinions on such a matter of ethics and personal morality. Responses asked for, responses given. No one was evaluating or advising you personally, but to say "anyone" else shouldn't get this goes against the ask in the thread.

I get that we don't always like the judgement of others in such matters. Sometimes we do, sometimes we don't. But people can and should opine in matters of ethics.

Thanks for the response and I edited the post to fix a couple of things that you pointed out.
The second portion of my post was to address other posts and should not have been included.
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  #49  
Old 08-18-2017, 02:26 PM
Dirk Hofman Dirk Hofman is online now
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Originally Posted by rokdog49 View Post
Thanks for the response and I edited the post to fix a couple of things that you pointed out.
The second portion of my post was to address other posts and should not have been included.
Thumbs up!
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  #50  
Old 08-18-2017, 03:25 PM
Herb Hunter Herb Hunter is offline
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Shortly before Hurricane Andrew hit, I came across a grey-haired man panhandling at a traffic light where an I-95 exit intersected with a street in Fort Lauderdale. As I waited for the light to glow green, I thought he looked very embarrassed to be holding an improvises sign asking for help. I gave him five dollars. About two weeks later I ran into him filling the tank of a fairly new pickup truck in Hollywood, FL.

The next time I was moved to help someone in the street, I gave food from a nearby drive-thru.

We can never be sure whether a mendicant is truly in need or working a scam but I would hate to fail helping someone in desperate circumstances because I couldn’t shake a feeling of suspicion.
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  #51  
Old 08-18-2017, 03:55 PM
6L6 6L6 is offline
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I started my USAF Pilot career in 1968 flying in Vietnam and ended 23 years later after flying in Desert Storm.

When I happen upon a situation such as the OP posted, I usually will ask the guy a couple of questions (what unit were you in, what was you duty, where did you go through Basic Training, etc.). Most of the fakes cannot answer the most basic questions. 90% of the people soon prove they are indeed fakes.

These days, if you're hip and don't want to work you only need a computer and utilize what's come to be known as "E-Panhandling". No more standing on a street corner holding a sign... cash is just a few keystrokes away.

It's called "GO FUND ME". I know a few folks who've made out really well (one dude over $10K in about 6 weeks) praying on others sympathy.

Yep, it's sad but true. Even the panhandlers are moving into the digital world.

Last edited by 6L6; 08-18-2017 at 06:28 PM.
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  #52  
Old 08-18-2017, 06:24 PM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb Hunter View Post
Shortly before Hurricane Andrew hit, I came across a grey-haired man panhandling at a traffic light where an I-95 exit intersected with a street in Fort Lauderdale. As I waited for the light to glow green, I thought he looked very embarrassed to be holding an improvises sign asking for help. I gave him five dollars. About two weeks later I ran into him filling the tank of a fairly new pickup truck in Hollywood, FL.

The next time I was moved to help someone in the street, I gave food from a nearby drive-thru.

We can never be sure whether a mendicant is truly in need or working a scam but I would hate to fail helping someone in desperate circumstances because I couldn’t shake a feeling of suspicion.
You reminded me that I never really answered the OP's question.

Anyway, I don't give pan handlers money. I usually will give them either my entire bag lunch (if in the morning) or (if on the way home from work) what I didn't eat that day - usually an apple and some cookies. I don't really pay attention to whether the person claims to be a vet or not, nor do I try to judge that sort of thing.

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  #53  
Old 08-18-2017, 06:53 PM
ThermiteTermite ThermiteTermite is offline
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Apropos of Nothing, I just felt like adding this..

Last year I had a guy come up to me and ask me for money in a convenience store. He was wearing a 173rd Airborne baseball cap and made a special point to tell me he had been in the 173rd Airborne in Vietnam. I normally wouldn't have thought that much about it.

My father had died the week before and he had been an Infantry Squad Leader with A Company 2/503rd in the 173rd in Vietnam in 1966 and was wounded in the Battle for Bau San, so the guy really got my attention when he mentioned the 173rd.

I asked the guy which of the 4 battalions he had been in and what year he had been there and he couldn't tell me, he just kept repeating 'I was Airborne.. I was Airborne.. you know.. Airborne..'

I said..'Yeah, ok' and didn't give the guy anything. It kinda left a bad taste in my mouth.
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  #54  
Old 08-20-2017, 06:25 PM
AmericanEagle AmericanEagle is offline
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I'm sorry, but I say never give a panhandler money.
The vast majority are drug addicts or alcoholics.
Take that money instead if you want,
and give it to a soup kitchen or halfway house instead.
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  #55  
Old 08-21-2017, 09:00 AM
Davis Webb Davis Webb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fazool View Post
The best thing you can do is not give them money directly. If you want to help, donate to a local service organization.

If you see someone who could use help, refer them to those organizations.
.

See my post below.
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  #56  
Old 08-21-2017, 09:03 AM
Davis Webb Davis Webb is offline
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If you consider yourself a moral human being and cannot give a single dollar to a homeless person, or a person in need, then you need to rethink your ethics.

And if they do need it for drugs or drink, be happy they won't need to break into your car that night to get money.

Please, think Charity. You may one day be there yourself. We are all one day away from homelessness. Mental illness, loss of family to get you out of the jam, mortage foreclosure due to sudden job loss. You are not immune. Pay it forward.

That is all.
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  #57  
Old 08-21-2017, 09:06 AM
Davis Webb Davis Webb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb Hunter View Post
I would hate to fail helping someone in desperate circumstances because I couldn’t shake a feeling of suspicion.
Thank you for this. I was getting angry reading the responses.
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  #58  
Old 08-21-2017, 09:46 AM
Nyghthawk Nyghthawk is offline
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Many of the chronic homeless are mentally ill or addicted to drugs.

There are also the transitory homeless. The recently laid off and others that have fallen through the enormous gaps in the social safety net.

It is not up to me (IMHO) to judge either of these groups.

Life has been kind to me. I can pass some kindness along without being judgmental about it.
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  #59  
Old 08-21-2017, 10:34 AM
jpd jpd is offline
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  #60  
Old 08-21-2017, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davis Webb View Post
If you consider yourself a moral human being and cannot give a single dollar to a homeless person, or a person in need, then you need to rethink your ethics.

And if they do need it for drugs or drink, be happy they won't need to break into your car that night to get money.

Please, think Charity. You may one day be there yourself. We are all one day away from homelessness. Mental illness, loss of family to get you out of the jam, mortage foreclosure due to sudden job loss. You are not immune. Pay it forward.

That is all.
While I don't always agree, I do appreciate and thank you for a fresh perspective, Davis....
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