mind wanders and then mistake

[RockyRacc00n]

For about 2 months now I've been dabbling in some Carter style and I find it difficult to get through a song without making some brain freeze mistakes. I've been working on these 2 particular traditional gospel pieces





I find that unless I am completely focused on my fingering, knowing where I am, where the next move is going, the slightest of a brain freeze will bring the thing to a halt.

Compare this to strumming and singing (which is pretty much what I know how to do), where there is only a handful of chords to remember and I know for the most part, where the chord changes are coming, getting through an instrumental piece like these seem to take much more brain power.

I would think these are considered easy pieces (?), yet I find that even the slightest distraction, wandering of the mind, will throw me off course. I am playing notes basically from memory that seems to require complete focus for me to get it right.

What is the method or secret or whatever that allows some of you good players to get through these instrumental pieces with limited mistakes? Are you going from memory or is there some feel you go by, much like the feel I have when I am strumming and singing, admittedly, much easier and less to remember.

I hope my question makes sense. Right now, after about 2 months of consistent practice on these songs, it still takes me about 20 minutes of warming up before I have a decent change of getting through a run without making a mistake.

[reeve21]

Your question makes perfect sense to me, as I am in the same boat.

Looking forward to any tips, but my guess is that it will be that 8 letter word that begins with p___________.

[RockyRacc00n]

Originally Posted by reeve21

Your question makes perfect sense to me, as I am in the same boat.



Looking forward to any tips, but my guess is that it will be that 8 letter word that begins with p___________.

Which is why I waited to make sure I had what I feel is a decent amount of practice (perhaps not enough?) ... I mean almost everyday using a metronome, slow speed, learning section by section, etc... before I am posting this question.

[rick-slo]

Memorization is a huge issue. You need to put in a lot of time playing through your pieces to maintain decent sized fingerstyle repertoire. If it's a melodic tune focus on memorizing melody line and while playing be mentally ahead of where you are actually playing at the moment to where the melody is going. Tunes you have learned, let lapse, relearned, let lapse, relearned, etc. often start to stick with you longer with less effort. With the fairly limited play time I put in I have forgotten 98% of the tunes I have learned - one reason I started trying to get good recordings of stuff.

[DukeX]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Memorization is a huge issue. You need to put in a lot of time playing through your pieces to maintain decent sized fingerstyle repertoire. If it's a melodic tune focus on memorizing melody line and while playing be mentally ahead of where you are actually playing at the moment to where the melody is going. Tunes you have learned, let lapse, relearned, let lapse, relearned, etc. often start to stick with you longer with less effort. With the fairly limited play time I put in I have forgotten 98% of the tunes I have learned - one reason I started trying to get good recordings of stuff.

This is all very true for me. I have fingerstyle pieces I've played for 20+ years that will foil me if I do not practice them a lot--even though I wrote them.

[auggie242]

Originally Posted by DukeX

I have fingerstyle pieces I've played for 20+ years that will foil me if I do not practice them a lot--even though I wrote them.

Same here. Even ones that aren't all that difficult.

[RockyRacc00n]

Originally Posted by auggie242

Same here. Even ones that aren't all that difficult.

Thank you for all the responses so far. So indeed, it does come down to simple repetition and memorization. And as someone else mentioned above, always thinking ahead to where I am going. I find that if I am conscientiously doing that, I have a better chance of not making a mistake. About to grab my guitar after a long day and settle in for another practice session

[SunnyDee]

This may be too obvious, but are you really listening to your playing? Sounds like you are playing mechanically with your fingers, but not really listening.

[reeve21]

Originally Posted by RockyRacc00n

Thank you for all the responses so far. So indeed, it does come down to simple repetition and memorization. And as someone else mentioned above, always thinking ahead to where I am going. I find that if I am conscientiously doing that, I have a better chance of not making a mistake. About to grab my guitar after a long day and settle in for another practice session

Hi Rocky,

There are some good replies here. You may want to check out this thread for how a professional approaches the problem:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=498493

Here are a few additional thoughts from a rank amateur

1. Memorize without looking at the score except when you get stuck. By looking away from the paper or screen you force your subconscious to get involved. This frees you up, gets you out of "paralysis by analysis" mode.

2. Record yourself. This is encouraging as it shows your progress, and helpful to point out errors you may not have realized your were making.

3. Give it a rest once in a while. I've read that the real learning takes place inside your head between the practice sessions. Athletes say recovery time is critical to improving performance. Break out your flat pick once in while and sing some songs. This is also a good confidence builder. That is a great skill, and there is no reason why you can't make similar progress in a new style.

4. Consider professional help. Finding a good teacher has really helped me. I got to the point where I realized my technique wasn't getting better by trying to learn songs I didn't have the skills to play...so I need the exercises, scales, arpeggios, etc. and the structure of a lesson plan to keep me on track.

5. Keep things in perspective. Two months may seem like an eternity when you are trying to learn a new tune, but there are very good players on the AGF who admit to taking 2 years or more to get comfortable with a piece. How long did it take you to get comfortable making chord changes smoothly and being able to sing along and keep time while strumming? I'll bet it was a lot more than 2 months, and there is a whole lot more going on in fingerstyle.

I say this as someone who is on the same path as you are. After strumming for a long time I took up fingerpicking just over a year ago, and I've been taking a weekly lesson for about half that time. It can get frustrating...I've got some tunes I've been working on for a very long time that I still manage to mangle, even though I can play them cleanly at times. And I still speed up on hard passages even though I practice with a metronome as much as I can stand it. But I do see slow if not steady improvement...you have to expect peaks and valleys, learning is not a linear process!

So hang in there!!!

[Mr. Jelly]

For me learning a piece exactly as it is laid out is impossible as it isn't enjoyable to me to play it, so my concentration wonders. To keep my interests and keep me mentally as well as emotionally engaged I learn a piece loosely so that I can express myself within it. There by giving me areas where I rest my concentration and emotionally breath and areas where focus and concentration are necessary. Part of performing is learning to recover from mistakes and how to deal with them as they are a natural aspect of being human.

[RockyRacc00n]

Originally Posted by SunnyDee

This may be too obvious, but are you really listening to your playing? Sounds like you are playing mechanically with your fingers, but not really listening.

I may well be too mechanical but not sure if I know the kind of listening you mention vs what I am doing.

But here is what happens. As an example.... I am playing something and I need to adjust how I am sitting or move around a bit and my focus gets diverted from playing for a moment.

That’s when I get a brain freeze on what comes next and is unable to continue without stopping.

Not as much a problem when singing and playing chords because you mostly hold down a position when you are doing that and your mind can wander if it needs to. But when playing something that requires fretting a series of notes... seems I have very little leeway in letting other things enter my mind.

[RockyRacc00n]

Originally Posted by reeve21

There are some good replies here. You may want to check out this thread for how a professional approaches the problem:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=498493

I read this before but will check it out again. Steps 3 and 4 are what I try to do, but perhaps I need to be more diligent about it. Also video taping myself... boy that's another distraction that doesn't help, but I guess that's the point... to introduce external pressure.

Originally Posted by reeve21

1. Memorize without looking at the score except when you get stuck. By looking away from the paper or screen you force your subconscious to get involved. This frees you up, gets you out of "paralysis by analysis" mode.

I use tabs to initially learn, but don't look at the tabs when I've gotten the piece. At this point, I know all the fingerings. It's just that I lose the association of what needs to be played when if my mind wanders off or gets distracted.

Originally Posted by reeve21

3. Give it a rest once in a while. I've read that the real learning takes place inside your head between the practice sessions.

I can totally relate to this as I've experienced this many times. You come back to something after several days and it seems to click better.

Originally Posted by reeve21

4. Consider professional help. Finding a good teacher has really helped me. I got to the point where I realized my technique wasn't getting better by trying to learn songs I didn't have the skills to play...so I need the exercises, scales, arpeggios, etc. and the structure of a lesson plan to keep me on track.

Too expensive... but yeah I often feel I can use technique help from a pro.

Originally Posted by reeve21

5. Keep things in perspective. Two months may seem like an eternity when you are trying to learn a new tune, but there are very good players on the AGF who admit to taking 2 years or more to get comfortable with a piece.
So hang in there!!!

Yeah... looks like a long road ahead.

[Nailpicker]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Memorization is a huge issue. You need to put in a lot of time playing through your pieces to maintain decent sized fingerstyle repertoire. If it's a melodic tune focus on memorizing melody line and while playing be mentally ahead of where you are actually playing at the moment to where the melody is going. Tunes you have learned, let lapse, relearned, let lapse, relearned, etc. often start to stick with you longer with less effort. With the fairly limited play time I put in I have forgotten 98% of the tunes I have learned - one reason I started trying to get good recordings of stuff.

This of course hits it.

I sometimes get brain freeze/memory lapse like anyone, but if I play my main repertoire over and over and over it gets "burned in" to the point I don't really need to use my brain it just naturally comes off my fingertips without much thought. Maybe it's called muscle memory? And I know those tunes to the point where if I do have a lapse, I can without missing a beat simply meander a bit, mix it up a bit and can keep on going. It helps (I think) that because I get easily bored I seldom play any song exactly the same way each time, but naturally add, delete, move parts around on the fly, spur of the moment.

I heard TE say that to remember and perfect songs he plays songs over and over and over until his family begs him to stop. Then he goes on continuing to play them over and over and over.

[David Rock]

I believe we all know this phenomena -- brain freeze. I thought I had invented it...but then I found AGF! Ha! I then realized I hadn't invented anything...ever! Double Ha!

When I was trying to address this issue in the beginning someone suggested I read this book:

The Inner Game Of Music by Barry Green

As it turns out it addresses these issues in a very understandable manner. Unfortunately for me I still struggle to apply the advice.

Now I just play. I seldom completely freeze up anymore, but I still make mistakes -- in every song. Even when I think I do something passable, if it is recorded, the mistakes stick out like a sore thumb to me and probably to everyone.

I thought this song (below) was good (or better), but after I had some very kind and appropriate input from fellow AGFrs, I realized some of the issues I need to focus on.

Maybe that word is the answer -- focus.



Peace
D

[reeve21]

Originally Posted by Nailpicker

I heard TE say that to remember and perfect songs he plays songs over and over and over until his family begs him to stop. Then he goes on continuing to play them over and over and over.

My poor wife can relate to this. She has taken to making up names to some of the tunes I play to get me to stop....for instance she calls My Creole Belle the Itsy Bitsy Spider song and does that thing with her hands showing the spider going up the water spout that we learned in grade school Her name being Susan I usually break out Oh Susannah when she pulls that stunt!