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  #1  
Old 12-10-2017, 09:47 PM
tonyo tonyo is offline
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Default Further to thread on Beatles, specifically Ringo

Saw a thread here a while back asking if any Beatles fans.

A friend posted these two links on facebook, I found them quite interesting.

http://web2.airmail.net/gshultz/bryant.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJTjjAXDZSY
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Old 12-10-2017, 11:30 PM
Russell G Russell G is offline
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Thanks for posting Tonyo. I have not seen these before which surprised me because I thought I saw every article/Vid on the Beatles !
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Old 12-12-2017, 02:01 PM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Yes, let's hear it for Ringo! That's a great video, and they don't even mention what I think is his greatest moment.
Tomorrow Never Knows was arguably the most revolutionary track they ever recorded, and Ringo rules it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah2ckzXgrx4
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Old 12-13-2017, 10:30 PM
Russell G Russell G is offline
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While on the subject of the Beatles, here's a link to a Beatles radio stream, from of all places, Poland. And commercial free too ! You don't need SiriusXM to listen full time to the Beatles !

http://www.rmfon.pl/play,77
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Old 12-14-2017, 10:46 AM
lfoo6952 lfoo6952 is offline
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Thanks for sharing. I never doubted that Ringo was a great drummer.

After watching the video, I vaguely remembered that his drum kit was auctioned off. I then did a Google search and discovered it was sold at auction in 2015 for a cool $2.2 million.
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Old 12-14-2017, 02:59 PM
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Mr. Jelly Mr. Jelly is offline
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Sorry I couldn't read it after reading the first sentence. Ringo is no talent? The guy is the best pop rock drummer of all time bar non. Not many have ever come close to his talent. He didn't keep time he played drums like an instrument playing a song or like they would be played in a symphony.
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Old 12-15-2017, 09:15 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly View Post
Sorry I couldn't read it after reading the first sentence. Ringo is no talent?
It was meant sarcastically! The whole article is designed - perhaps unnecessarily late - to counter that old myth, which arose from the unfair comparison with the other three, who were all (obviously) better singers and songwriters (and better looking) than he was. Three geniuses out front, and - hang on, who's that fool in the back?

There were a few idiots who claimed he wasn't a great drummer - probably the same idiots who used to say Bob Dylan couldn't sing. A similar class of idiot likes to claim there are much better guitarists than Jimi Hendrix, just because they can play faster. (There probably are better guitarists than Hendrix, but not many, and certainly not because of how fast they can play.)

There was even a joke within the band that "Ringo isn't even the best drummer in the Beatles" (that honour being claimed by Paul McCartney) but they never meant it. They knew he was the best drummer in Liverpool when they hired him (when George Martin found Pete Best wanting).
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Old 12-16-2017, 02:40 AM
Guitars+gems Guitars+gems is offline
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Excellent links, tonyo, thanks for posting! I appreciate the defense of Ringo, though why he should need any defense is beyond me. So cool to see all those famous drummers behind Ringo's drum kit too!

Anyone who doubts Ringo's prowess as a drummer should listen toThe Beatles Live at the BBC. (Ticket to Ride sounds particularly good live!) He's perfect on every track, always there to make his drums do whatever was needed.

Yay Ringo!
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Old 12-16-2017, 03:34 PM
tonyo tonyo is offline
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Originally Posted by Guitars+gems View Post
Excellent links, tonyo, thanks for posting! I appreciate the defense of Ringo, though why he should need any defense is beyond me. So cool to see all those famous drummers behind Ringo's drum kit too!

Anyone who doubts Ringo's prowess as a drummer should listen toThe Beatles Live at the BBC. (Ticket to Ride sounds particularly good live!) He's perfect on every track, always there to make his drums do whatever was needed.

Yay Ringo!
Glad you all have enjoyed it, thanks. I was hesitant to post something about drumming in an acoustic guitar forum but found it so interesting I hoped others would too
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Old 12-16-2017, 10:58 PM
Russell G Russell G is offline
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Tonyo, keep posting Beatles stuff as you find it.

My folder about the Beatles is going from huge to gonzo but I love to read new articles/see YT vids when they appear.


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Old 12-16-2017, 11:30 PM
tonyo tonyo is offline
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About to start learning to play Don't let me down.
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Old 12-17-2017, 03:46 AM
Scootch Scootch is offline
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I remember reading (in several places) back in the 70s, articles or comments decrying all the Beatles instrumental talents. Statements of the opinion that they did not know their instruments but grew into it etc. a lot of these criticism were reserved for Ringo especially. Stuff like, he's not the best drummer, but has the best backbeat in the business.

I suppose that we all have grown into our instruments. Right?

It is nice that the lads are recognized for each of their individual genius, skills and taste in playing. Greatly tempered, encouraged and guided by George Martin, there may never again be another band like them ever again.

I really enjoyed the http://web2.airmail.net/gshultz/bryant.html link.
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Old 12-17-2017, 11:37 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Originally Posted by Scootch View Post
I remember reading (in several places) back in the 70s, articles or comments decrying all the Beatles instrumental talents. Statements of the opinion that they did not know their instruments but grew into it etc. a lot of these criticism were reserved for Ringo especially. Stuff like, he's not the best drummer, but has the best backbeat in the business.
Yes, that was from the days when prog was king, Hendrix had set a new bar for technical skill, and rock musicians (and critics) were looking to jazz fusion and even classical music for their heroes. Rock was supposed to have "grown up", and it was normal (before punk slapped those snobs around) to sneer at the "primitive" crudities of the 1960s. When you have John Bonham, Carl Palmer or Bill Bruford as your ideal, you're bound to be a little sniffy about Ringo.

People accepted the Beatles' songwriting talents of course (although they weren't as highly rated then as now), but it was felt - understandably - that their instrumental skills couldn't match their writing (or singing) skills. It's true that their early recordings at least are no better than competent - they were certainly good enough for the simple tunes they were playing. Paul was the stand-out one, who was better on bass than he needed to be. George's lead guitar occasionally sounded clunky. Hendrix (or Clapton or Page) he wasn't, not by any stretch of the imagination. John and Ringo were workmanlike - i.e., efficient, without being especially imaginative or dazzling.
But for those 70s critics you mention, that level of skill was somehow unsatisfactory. They ignored the fact that they were at least as skilled as their contemporaries in the early-mid-60s, and that everything they did was right for the time (and the tune).
It's true that they "grew into" their instruments as their career progressed, but they knew them well enough before they made it big - they could hardly have wowed the Hamburg or Liverpool crowds as they did if they hadn't been at least competent players.
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Last edited by JonPR; 12-17-2017 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 12-19-2017, 11:04 PM
tonyo tonyo is offline
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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-2...rtance/9273072

More fuel to the fire...
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  #15  
Old 12-20-2017, 05:27 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyo View Post
LOL. I love the "scientific evidence to prove it."
As if science is any guide to musical quality, still less cultural importance.

The scientist in question does make some good points (the science itself seems to be sound), eg about the "aggressiveness" that was a hallmark of the Stones, Kinks, Who, etc, but not generally of the Beatles. It's true that the genre we call "Rock" - which included true innovation - was developed by those post-Beatles bands. The Beatles can be seen as the last of the "showbiz rock'n'rollers", not the first "Rock band". You only have to look at old film of the Beatles in suits bowing to audiences, and compare with the Stones of the same period (64-66), in their casual gear and untidy hair, unsmiling, to see the real cultural change the latter represented.

All that's true, but doesn't detract from the power of the Beatles as songwriters at the very least. They may have been the last of the "showbiz rock'n'rollers" (remember the 1962 professional A&R man's observation that "guitar bands are on the way out") - but they brought together every pop genre that had gone before them and mixed it into one body of work. Showbiz rock'n'roll was going out on a high! Plus (with George Martin) they were at the forefront of advances in recording techniques which had enormous impact on all who came after - the psychedelic bands, and the prog rockers. IOW, their influence spread in ways too subtle to appear in the prof's analyses. No one who followed them was untouched by them.

IOW, it depends on what aspects of the Beatles you're looking at. To say they are "over-rated" is quite valid, but only when looking at one aspect of their work, and (arguably) making false comparisons.

The whole article - http://rsos.royalsocietypublishing.o...ent/2/5/150081 - is worth reading, even if the conclusions are arguably exaggerated:

"Those who wish to make claims about how and when popular music changed can no longer appeal to anecdote, connoisseurship and theory unadorned by data."

Oh, can't we?? Just try and stop us!
Seriously, such data is not to be sniffed at, and I think the more one really knows about pop history - and the less biased one tried to be - the more their conclusions support that knowledge. Much of what they found makes perfect sense to me at least, it's not surprising at all. (I'll admit some of the more arcane jargon went right over my head.)
When assessing the Beatles in particular, an element of baby boomer nostalgia often creeps in. But it does seem that plenty of the younger generation(s) also find something in the Beatles' music beyond what the scientific analysis identifies, and which continues to place them well above their contemporaries.
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