Alternatives to Travis Picking

[gitardude]

OK, I've become passably competent playing pieces based on Travis picking, and I'm interested in expanding to other fingerstyle modes in Americana roots or UK folk. Only trouble is I have no idea how to proceed with choosing and learning. Any ideas?

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by gitardude

OK, I've become passably competent playing pieces based on Travis picking, and I'm interested in expanding to other fingerstyle modes in Americana roots or UK folk. Only trouble is I have no idea how to proceed with choosing and learning. Any ideas?

There are so many sources and so many styles. For example on my tab page look at the tab/standard notation for "A Kiss In The Night" (pretty piece and not hard to play).
Do some listening. Zero in on the styles you like. Find the tabs. Learn a few of the tunes.

[gitardude]

Thanks. Pretty piece, I'll give it a shot.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by gitardude

OK, I've become passably competent playing pieces based on Travis picking, and I'm interested in expanding to other fingerstyle modes in Americana roots or UK folk. Only trouble is I have no idea how to proceed with choosing and learning. Any ideas?

Hi gitardude…

Check out Al Petteway, Laurence Juber, our own Doug Young, Mark Hanson, Pete Huttlinger and any number of other styled players.

Pete Huttlinger has a wonderful DVD for intermediated/advanced level titled "Essential Exercises for Fingerstyle Guitar" for $20 on Amazon which lays a foundation for future growth, and expansion.

I watch it a couple times a year, and have deployed many of his techniques as a result. It's not a digest-it-all and use-it-all type teaching DVD. But it is a great resource (and comes with paper instructions)

Mark Hanson (Accent on Music dot com) has a lot of great resources as well.

Acoustic Music Resource (dot com) and Homespun Tapes (dot com) have great DVD teaching resources as well from Juber, Mike Dowling, Pat Donohue etc.

All these are about $30 a pop (less than the price of a single lesson) and worth it. Many samples are on YouTube.

Our own Toby Walker is on some of those sources as well.

Hope this helps…

[HarleySpirit]

Hi,
This style of fingerpicking (definitely not Travis Style) may be considered by some, to be an alternative to Travis Picking:

http://users.eastlink.ca/~harleyspi/payfwdlesson.html

[grim83]

I'm not sure I understand your issue op. Many people see Travis picking as only a series of patterns played fingerstyle (usually with the thumb and first two fingers) when in reality that is just the beginning. It's the foundation that will allow you to play all the other stuff from James Taylor to Robert Johnson and beyond. What we think of as Travis picking is really more of a fundamental style to teach you basic coordination, Merle Travis himself played nothing like the "style" that bares his name. The key is that once you can competently play with the patterns you need to start breaking away from them and allowing your thumb to be the bass while the fingers begin working more intricate melody lines.

[Notguildy]

Thanks for the link Harley. I've been playing downstrokes for only 2 months and it is changing my original "Travis" style.

However I don't think it can bring me more speed. The interest I see is to have percussive sound with thumb at the same time like John Mayer or to frail many strings. I don't see the point of downstroking a single string.

[HarleySpirit]

Originally Posted by Notguildy

Thanks for the link Harley. I've been playing downstrokes for only 2 months and it is changing my original "Travis" style.

However I don't think it can bring me more speed. The interest I see is to have percussive sound with thumb at the same time like John Mayer or to frail many strings. I don't see the point of downstroking a single string.

Hi,
The down stroke on the single string is only half the equation. The other half is the up stroke... like alternate flatpicking in a D/U/D/U/D/U/D/U fashion, either on a single string or several strings, what ever the "melody" calls for.
e.g. As an example, the count in a single measure could be: 1... 2 & 3 & 4 & consisting of a quarter note and six eighth notes played in an alternating D/U fashion with either the RH index finger or the middle finger (similar to actually using a plectrum/pick).

Hope this helps. With practise you'll gain more speed.

[Doug Young]

It all depends on what you like, of course, so just find some tunes you enjoy and feel motivated to play. But to me, the next step after you've gotten the repetitive pattern thing down, can play with your thumb on auto-pilot, and so on, is to learn to undo all that! Learn to be able to play melodies, bass lines that are more than just alternating patterns, incorporate inner moving voices and basically be able to play independent parts without being locked into a pattern. Classical music could a good starting place - just some easy intro classical guitar studies might help open you up to playing beyond patterns. Since you mention english folk, check out John Renborn, who has lots of great pieces that can move you beyond alternating bass.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Notguildy

Thanks for the link Harley. I've been playing downstrokes for only 2 months and it is changing my original "Travis" style.

However I don't think it can bring me more speed. The interest I see is to have percussive sound with thumb at the same time like John Mayer or to frail many strings. I don't see the point of downstroking a single string.

That lesson Harley linked is actually a brief description of what you're asking - but it can be developed in many ways.

To explain it a slightly different way:
There are four downstrokes per bar: thumb on 1 and 3 on bass strings (usually 6 or 5, sometimes 4); frailing finger(s) (backs of nails) on 2 and 4, usually on top 3 strings. (You can use one finger, or all of them, up to you.)
In between any of those, you can pick upwards with the fingers (just one finger, or 2 or 3 singers together for chords).

This is pretty much how John Mayer plays - he does add a kind of slap with the thumb on the bass string(s) at the same time as the downward frail, but I'm sure how much that contributes to the percussive sound (which I think is largely from the fingers). The thumb hit on 2 and 4 seems to serve just to mute that string, prior to picking it on 1 or 3.

John Martyn developed a similar style in the 1970s:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FonNSNB3kxI
- made more aggressive by the Bert Jansch-style twanging, pulling the strings away to slap them back against the frets. You get a good shot of his right hand technique towards the end, from around 3:40.

[Notguildy]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

But to me, the next step after you've gotten the repetitive pattern thing down, can play with your thumb on auto-pilot, and so on, is to learn to undo all that! Learn to be able to play melodies, bass lines that are more than just alternating patterns, incorporate inner moving voices and basically be able to play independent parts without being locked into a pattern.

I'm learning Who Says from John Mayer. I'm starting to master the downstrokes but whenever the pattern is interrupted like on the A chord during chorus with hammer-on and pull-off I got lost. I simply don't know what to do withmy other fingers which are supposed to play as this time but have to wait!

Is it what you mean by undoing pattern? Any idea for this particular track?

Thanks

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Notguildy

Is it what you mean by undoing pattern? Any idea for this particular track?

Thanks

Well, what I meant was to learn to play whatever the music requires rather than playing some repetitive pattern. It's useful to learn patterns, whether it's alternating bass or back-beat percussion or strumming patterns. But turn on the radio and listen to music that isn't just guitar. Any style. Odds are high that you won't hear the bass player just doing a root-five-root-five pattern, they'll be providing a melodically interesting line. Same for any accompaniment patterns, and for a melody. I'd suggest it's useful, whether you're playing accompaniment or solo guitar to be able to play whatever you want to play - provide an interesting bass line, a melody or counter-melody and so on.

here's an nice example of a non-alternating bass tune someone posted on Show and Tell the other day:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=376165

here's an extreme example (very advanced, but maybe you'll see my point) of a piece with a strong bass line. He's playing what he wants to play here, not just playing a picking pattern:



Here's something less pyrotechnic, and focused on accompaniment by our own Rick Ruskin. Notice his bass parts and how he plays specific parts for the harmony (chords), not patterns.



A good exercise would be to try to arrange some pop tune. Whether as an instrumental or as a vocal, try something like "My Girl" or "Hit the Road, Jack" or "Satisfaction". You'll probably find there are key elements that have to be there to sound like the song, probably starting with the bass line, and it won't be alternating bass.

Alternating bass is fine for what it is, but it sounded like you're asking "what's next", and I'd suggest what's next is to break away from set patterns, and be able to play whatever your ear needs to hear to support the song.

[Bikewer]

For me, a natural progression from folkie-style Travis picking was the blues. Fingerstyle blues can use much the same techniques mechanically, but with an entirely different feel and emphasis.

From there, it was (only recently) on to fingerstyle jazz...Chord melody playing what is almost a classical-guitar technique.

[stanron]

Originally Posted by gitardude

I'm interested in expanding to other fingerstyle modes in Americana roots or UK folk. Any ideas?

Try this

Young Collins (S England Morris Dancing Tune)


A Part
E╓─────────────────┬─────0───────────┬─────────0───────┬─────────────────╖R
B╟─────0h1─3───0───┼─1───────────0h1─┼─3───────────3─1p┼─0───────────────╢E
G╟─0h2─────────────┼─────────2───────┼─────────────────┼─────2───0───────╢P
D╟─────────────────┼─────────────────┼─────────────────┼─────────────0───╢E
A╟─────────2───────┼─3───────0───────┼─────2───3───────┼─────────────────╢A
E╙─3───────────────┴─────────────────┴─────────────────┴─────2───3───────╜T

. .1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + . 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + . 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + . 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + .


B Part
╓─────────────────┬─────────────────┬─────────────────┬─0───────────────┐
╟─────────────────┼─────────────────┼─0───────0h1─3p0─┼─────1───3───────┤
╟─────────────0───┼─2───2───0─────2─┼─────0───────────┼─────0─────────0─┤
╟─2─────0─2s4─────┼─────0───────0───┼─────0───────────┼─────────────0───┤
╟─────────────────┼─────────────────┼─────────2───────┼─3───────2───────┤
╙─0───────────────┴─2───────3───────┴─3───────────────┴─────────────────┘

 .1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + . 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + . 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + . 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + .



┌─────────────────┬─────0───────────┬─────────0───────┬─────────────────╖R
├─────0h1─3───0───┼─1───────────0h1─┼─3───────────3─1p┼─0───────────────╢E
├─h─2─────────────┼─────────2───────┼─────────────────┼─────2───0───────╢P
├─────────────────┼─────────────────┼─────────────────┼─────────────0───╢E
├─────────2───────┼─3───────0───────┼─────2───3───────┼─────────────────╢A
└─3───────────────┴─────────────────┴─────────────────┴─────2───3───────╜T

. .1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + . 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + . 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + . 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + .

[jaymarsch]

Good suggestions here and I will add that teaching materials by Rolly Brown have helped me a lot. Here is a link to a great DVD that addresses the building blocks of fingerpicking and fingerstyle and how to improvise out of those foundational patterns. He also has a great DVD on the fingerstyle guitar work of Bert Jansch. Worth a look.

http://www.guitarvideos.com/products...picking-guitar

Best,
Jayne