For those using the Cargo with K & K pickups

[tbeltrans]

Some folks here read my posts at the old McNichol forum regarding amplifying my pre-Peavey Cargo with K & K pickups installed. There has been a real problem taming the lower midrange with that particular configuration, and I came up with a couple of solutions that required modifying the Boss GE-7 graphic EQ pedal and the EHX Knockout pedal. This worked well, but pretty much ruled out those folks with no electronics background.

Later, I got an Empress ParaEQ, and that worked well, bringing the pedal count from two to one.

Some time ago, I purchased an Acoustic Image Coda R Series III on closeout at a local music store and was using it pretty much for my archtop jazz guitar in a group I was in at the time. It has been a few years since then and I was considering selling that amp because I have gotten another, a Henrickson, since then.

Now, I have a couple of gigs coming up backing a singer/songwriter on acoustic and I want to use my Cargo since these are bar gigs where I would not want to risk my wood guitars.

I grabbed the Acoustic Image amp and just plugged in my Cargo to hear how that would work. It works perfect without any external EQ at all. It amplifies clear and as loud as might be needed in a bar, so it is an ideal match, and I don't need to drag along any pedals - just the Cargo and the amp. I am glad to have not sold the amp, and am mentioning it here in case anyone else is still using the Cargo with the three element K & K pickup.

If the Acoustic Image amp works, I am sure there are other amplifiers that will too. The cool thing about the Acoustic Image is that it is small, light, and incredibly powerful with its class D output section. Mine is rated at 400w, and was typically used by jazz acoustic bass players in large hall settings. Due to its wide frequency response, some jazz guitarists tended to favor them too. This amp is no longer made, but the Series 4 is the current product line.

Since this amp works so well with the Cargo, it can really pretty much handle most any guitar or bass, so it is a pretty decent single amp solution for those of us who play across multiple styles in various group settings.

Tony

[tbeltrans]

Oh well. 102 views and no comments. Well, I made one follow up. The folks who at one time might have needed this information have probably moved on to other instruments.

Tony

Tony;

#103 here. I had the K&K in my Peavey Cargo and it was good. I also had the K&K in my X20-OSN and in my X10-OSN. In each case I've found the pickup to be balanced.

[tbeltrans]

There were a couple of us back in the McNichol forum that had pre-Peavey Cargos with K & K pickups installed, and we had a terrible time with the lower midrange. It was difficult to tame.

There was one guy who experimented with removing the middle pickup element of the three that the K & K consists of, and he seemed to get a more balanced sound (or at least tamed that lower mid range). I didn't want to do that because, at least to my ears, his sound seemed to be missing something in the midrange. I felt that my solution would be proper EQ'ing. I succeeded at that with my modifications to the Boss and EHX pedals, and I documented these quite thoroughly in that forum.

Later, the Empress ParaEQ pedal became available, and that provided yet another solution that worked out of the box so no need to be versed in electronics. Now, I find that the Acoustic Image amplifier seems to tame the Cargo on its own without the aid of any pedal.

Maybe there is something different about the Peavey version of the Cargo. I have only played one or two of these, and personally prefer the original pre-Peavey Cargos. I like the RT finish best and the darker/warmer sound that seems to go with it.

I remember that Penny had similar issues with her Cargo as I did. She also had Marty at The Podium install K & K pickups in her Cargo (which I believe she had purchased from The Podium, as I did). I don't know if she still has that Cargo and if she is still amplifying it.

I do not know how many others there might have been, so when I find something that works even better (or at least is a simpler solution than what I originally had done), I post about it. I am thinking that, it is likely most of these folks have moved on to other guitars or have lost interest in trying to amplify them. I intend to keep my three Cargos for a long time because they are still my favorite guitars.

I did not like the sound of the electronics option that was available in the original Cargos, so I wanted to try something different. It may well be that the Peavey version of the Cargo has better factory electronics and the problem can now be easily solved in that manner. Not having heard that for myself, I can only guess that this is a possibility.

By the way, I coined the term pre-Peavey in the McNichol forum. In that post, I mentioned that when Fender was acquired by CBS (as I recall), there was a period when folks would refer to their Fender amps as "pre-CBS" to differentiate because it was often believed that those sounded better, so it made sense to use the term "pre-Peavey" to convey the original CA Guitars products. Since then, I have seen the phrase used fairly frequently both here and, at the time, it started to slowly take hold in the McNichol forum.

Tony

[penny]

Hi Tony,
Good to see you here! I still have my Cargo, but it gets very little playing time now that I have a Shorty. I took the Cargo to a music conference a few years ago and plugged it in at the late night open mic and it just sounded terrible. All the UST players before me sounded just fine. No matter what we tweaked at the board, it just sounded so bad. It was very embarrasing and clinched it for me to look for another guitar. I think the K&K equipped Cargo sounds just fine w my Roland AC33 amp, but for my work, I need something more 'plug and play' and less 'hit and miss' with various inhouse sound systems. I couldn't find a successful solution in a small simple battery powered preamp DI I could carry w me everywhere, so I eventually gave up and moved on. SUPER happy w the Shorty, it just works for me all around. I still think the Cargo is an amazing guitar, and like you I love the roadtuff finish. Happy to hear you're playing out w your Cargo and have found a good solution for amplification!
Penny

[tbeltrans]

Good to hear from you Penny! Yes, I can see how the Cargo with K & K would present the problems you describe. I just stuck with it because the Cargo is still my favorite guitar. I have some really nice wood instruments that I appreciate, but I always seem to come back to the Cargo at some point. It is just so comfortable to play and I really like the wider fretboard.

One thing about Roland equipment is that all of the guitar stuff seems to present a 1 meg ohm input impedance. some people in these forums have taken me to task for saying that the K & K pickups function best into that load, but even K & K says so. I have tried different input impedances and there is a difference in the frequency response (which will determine how good or bad it sounds), which is to be expected. This isn't the only factor, of course, but it is not a minor one in the grand scheme of things. I am reasonably sure that your Roland amp presents this input impedance, as do most (if not all) Roland pedals. Another factor is the design of the sound shaping circuit (i.e. the toe controls). The overall combination of factors seems to be just right in your Roland amplifier, just as it is in my Acoustic Image.

At one time, I tried the Shorty and the Parlor instruments from Rainsong. As nice as they were, I just preferred my Cargos. So, for me, it was a matter of finding ways to make the Cargo sound good amplified, and I did. The Empress ParaEQ is one solution that would work for anybody. My previous solution required electronics skills, so that limits its usefulness for many folks. The Acoustic Image is still an expensive amplifier, even used, so that may limit its usefulness. However, we now know of two amplifiers that work well with the Cargo (your Roland and my Acoustic Image). I am sure there are others.

For many folks, moving on to another guitar is probably the best way to handle the problem. Unfortunately, the Cargo for me is still "the one".

Tony

[dogdog49]

I got great results with my Cargo with JJB 330 pickups simply using my stock Joyo 6 band equalizer through my Compact 60. Dead quiet eq pedal with 18db range on each frequency seemingly hitting all the right spots for this setup with no modifications.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by dogdog49

I got great results with my Cargo with JJB 330 pickups simply using my stock Joyo 6 band equalizer through my Compact 60. Dead quiet eq pedal with 18db range on each frequency seemingly hitting all the right spots for this setup with no modifications.

That is interesting. It is possible that the JJB pickups may have different frequency response than the K & K, and/or that the impedance requirements might be different. The input impedance of your EQ pedal may also be different and better matched to the JJB pickups. I had to change the center frequencies on a couple of the bands on my GE-7. I am glad your EQ pedal worked for you right out of the box.

Tony

[kramster]

Good to hear from Tony and Penny...oh and I guess that nylon string playing guy...

I was always trying stuff with my original cargo which I still have. I haven't played it in a while and maybe I better have at it.. I have a few different amps since then.. Bose Compact... Centerpoint Space Station and a lil Yammy THR10 for just goofing around in me lil studio or around the house and sometimes camping as it has those battery things.