Fingerstyle as solo instrumental

[MC5C]

Classical style playing is a lot more than just century old pieces, it's simply a way of both playing physically and reading notation. You might not realize this, but pieces written for classical style players often have the left hand fingers and frets notated, as well as the right hand fingers. It's all there, in other words, and once you get the hang of it it's easy to read, and for my taste a heck of a lot easier than tab. I'm a firm believer that if you want to actually play guitar and read music, a little classical training is a great thing to have behind you. It can be the ultimate goal, or it can just be a landing on the stair case. But there are things in there that help everything. There is more to finger-style than a thumb pumping out alternating bass.

I just had a thought. I bet a lot of classical players wouldn't know how to Travis Pick to save their lives. But if you wrote it out for them, with all of the left and right hand finger notations, they could probably sight read it...

[EllaMom]

Originally Posted by Hatter

You and I are in the same boat. Thats what I asked in my thread about fingerstyle but you put it just perfectly,I dont have such a good way with words I guess haha. I dont have a problem with picking hand either,it knows its way around,but the fretting hand is the problem. I think we got the answer from RodB here. Its the slow practice of phrases,and learning the chord shapes all over the fretboard.

Hatter, thanks for that. I, too, have no problem with the picking hand, at least in terms of playing patterns and know which finger to play which string. Not that I always land where I intend to!

For what it's worth, I'm a writer, so expressing myself in this way comes naturally (it's my inner journalist!). It might also be why I prefer my lessons/learnings in print form rather than on video or live demonstration.

Carol

[EllaMom]

Thanks for your post. Interestingly, I ordered a book awhile back, based on a recommendation here in PLAY on AGF. It was for a book called "Contemporary Moods for Classical Guitar" by Laurindo Almeida. What I didn't realize is that it doesn't include tab. I can read easy notation, but these arrangements are waaaaay too complex. The very first song, Blue Moon," has four #s in the key signature (don't know what key that is). But you're right, I do see that it appears the fretboard fingering is included. Just wish it had tab to go with standard notation.

Originally Posted by MC5C

Classical style playing is a lot more than just century old pieces, it's simply a way of both playing physically and reading notation. You might not realize this, but pieces written for classical style players often have the left hand fingers and frets notated, as well as the right hand fingers. It's all there, in other words, and once you get the hang of it it's easy to read, and for my taste a heck of a lot easier than tab. I'm a firm believer that if you want to actually play guitar and read music, a little classical training is a great thing to have behind you. It can be the ultimate goal, or it can just be a landing on the stair case. But there are things in there that help everything. There is more to finger-style than a thumb pumping out alternating bass.

I just had a thought. I bet a lot of classical players wouldn't know how to Travis Pick to save their lives. But if you wrote it out for them, with all of the left and right hand finger notations, they could probably sight read it...

[Grinning Boy]

EllaMom we are on the exact same page. I believe solo fingerstyle guitar is so enjoyable to hear and play.

If you haven't heard him yet, check out one of my absolute favorite players on the internet...Walter Rodrigues

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whrV_gaKevI

The man uses guitar to make beautiful music. He also has some very helpful materials including a great intro course to using jazz chords in your solo playing.

What I found finally worked for me was to start playing songs from lead sheets that I really love. They may be simple at first but it's still music and the songs evolve as you learn new techniques. Look for books that will enhance techniques to make your arrangements more interesting, but focus primarily on learning songs. I heard Joe Pass say that and he was absolutely correct...."just play songs"

For technique materials one old time staple which greatly helped my playing is Mickey Baker's Vol 1. He shows how to do simple but very effective chord substitutions.

[EllaMom]

Originally Posted by Grinning Boy

EllaMom we are on the exact same page. I believe solo fingerstyle guitar is so enjoyable to hear and play.

If you haven't heard him yet, check out one of my absolute favorite players on the internet...Walter Rodrigues

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whrV_gaKevI

The man uses guitar to make beautiful music. He also has some very helpful materials including a great intro course to using jazz chords in your solo playing.

What I found finally worked for me was to start playing songs from lead sheets that I really love. They may be simple at first but it's still music and the songs evolve as you learn new techniques. Look for books that will enhance techniques to make your arrangements more interesting, but focus primarily on learning songs. I heard Joe Pass say that and he was absolutely correct...."just play songs"

For technique materials one old time staple which greatly helped my playing is Mickey Baker's Vol 1. He shows how to do simple but very effective chord substitutions.

Grinning, thanks. What I don't understand, though, is exactly what to do with a lead sheet. Do you basically "pick apart" the chord indicated for each passage as the accompaniment to the melody? Is it that random? Do you see what I mean and why I continue to be confused? The melody note isn't always a note in the accompanying chord, either. Which wreaks havoc with me in terms of figuring out fretboard fingering at times. I feel like I'm playing Twister with my fingers on the fretboard!

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by MC5C

I just had a thought. I bet a lot of classical players wouldn't know how to Travis Pick to save their lives. But if you wrote it out for them, with all of the left and right hand finger notations, they could probably sight read it...

Good point! A person who learns to Travis pick, gets it into his or her hands, and then it becomes automatic. At that point, the person can apply Travis picking to whatever chords s/he wants to play at any time, and then start putting the melody on top. Then, the person can play whatever tune s/he wants without having to have it written out at all. To me, this just seems much more enjoyable for the casual player (i.e. I am sure there are deep rewards for those with the very long term discipline required to become an accomplished classical player).

Tony

[Grinning Boy]

Originally Posted by EllaMom

Grinning, thanks. What I don't understand, though, is exactly what to do with a lead sheet. Do you basically "pick apart" the chord indicated for each passage as the accompaniment to the melody? Is it that random? Do you see what I mean and why I continue to be confused? The melody note isn't always a note in the accompanying chord, either. Which wreaks havoc with me in terms of figuring out fretboard fingering at times. I feel like I'm playing Twister with my fingers on the fretboard!

Hi EllaMom,

A good way to get going is to just play the melody and drop the chord in underneath on the first or last beat of the measure. You don't have to have a chord on every note. Let the melody lead your arrangement and enhance the melody note every now and then with the chord underneath it, or even just the bass note. Just hearing a well phrased melody line sounds great.

Also, if you get a little jazz chord substitutions under your belt, you'll see for example that maj7 chords work under the melody rather than a straight major chord.

One thing you typically have to do with a lead sheet is to raise the melody up a whole octave. I do that automatically when reading notation now. For example, if the lead sheet reads middle note C on the 2nd string, first fret, move it up an octave when playing it to the 8th fret on the first string and add chords under it. You can alternate to the octave as written to add some variety playing it through the 2nd time. Guitar arrangements sound best as a rule when the melody notes are in the upper registers on the treble strings.

If you play up an octave, determine what inversion of the chord you can drop underneath it.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by EllaMom

Thanks, everyone, for your responses. Very VERY helpful. And encouraging.



I have not yet learned my way "up and down the neck" in any meaningful way. Which means I can't find, say, the C chord anywhere but the first position, although conceptually I understand how barring and sliding up the neck changes, an Am to A#m, then a Bm, etc. I've tried to grasp the CAGED system, but some previous teachers thought it was a silly system, so no consistency.

Get that Triad Power book I mentioned by Mark Hanson or talk to your teacher about the different C chord locations, for example, up and down the neck, at least in the triad forms. A lot of us have a library of chord positions in our heads and fingers from playing for years so picking out how to play a finger style piece comes as second nature. Getting it to sound right is another story

[EllaMom]

Originally Posted by TBman

Get that Triad Power book I mentioned by Mark Hanson or talk to your teacher about the different C chord locations, for example, up and down the neck, at least in the triad forms. A lot of us have a library of chord positions in our heads and fingers from playing for years so picking out how to play a finger style piece comes as second nature. Getting it to sound right is another story

Thanks Barry. I ordered it a little earlier today. Thanks for what you just posted. Again, it's affirming. Most of you here have been at this for years...decades even. There is an underlying foundation that perhaps some seasoned players aren't even consciously aware of. It just..."is." Not so, quite yet, for me. But working on it. This forum is awesome and I learn so much whenever I spend time reading other threads or posting questions of my own.

C.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by EllaMom

Thanks Barry. I ordered it a little earlier today. Thanks for what you just posted. Again, it's affirming. Most of you here have been at this for years...decades even. There is an underlying foundation that perhaps some seasoned players aren't even consciously aware of. It just..."is." Not so, quite yet, for me. But working on it. This forum is awesome and I learn so much whenever I spend time reading other threads or posting questions of my own.

C.

That's great, enjoy the journey. Before you know it, you'll be posting your songs in show and tell...

[EllaMom]

Originally Posted by TBman

That's great, enjoy the journey. Before you know it, you'll be posting your songs in show and tell...

HAHAHAHAHA........GULP!

[Pine]

Hi Carol,

You described what I am learning. When I described it to my teacher, he didn't really understand until I played (iTunes) Fields of Gold played by Jung Sungha. His response was that the style was "Classical". He said he didn't teach that style, and referred me to a teacher who teaches the classical style, but primarily plays jazz, folk, rock and pop.

So I've started lessons from a new teacher. The book he is teaching out of for this is "Classic Guitar Technique" by Aaron Shearer. Great beginner fingerstyle book, well written, nicely paced. (all notation, no tab)

The studies in the book are what beginning classical guitarists learn. My teacher assures me that the songs we work on will be music I like, not classical.

Good luck in your search.

[EllaMom]

Originally Posted by Pine

Hi Carol,

You described what I am learning. When I described it to my teacher, he didn't really understand until I played (iTunes) Fields of Gold played by Jung Sungha. His response was that the style was "Classical". He said he didn't teach that style, and referred me to a teacher who teaches the classical style, but primarily plays jazz, folk, rock and pop.

So I've started lessons from a new teacher. The book he is teaching out of for this is "Classic Guitar Technique" by Aaron Shearer. Great beginner fingerstyle book, well written, nicely paced. (all notation, no tab)

The studies in the book are what beginning classical guitarists learn. My teacher assures me that the songs we work on will be music I like, not classical.

Good luck in your search.

Thanks Pine. My very first teacher was a classical guitarist. But I was brand new to guitar so we didn't do anything more than learn basic cowboy chords, etc. My third teacher had me working from two books, one was by Mark Hanson (contemporary pieces, including some of his own), the other was by Christopher Parkening: Guitar Method vol. 1, which was all classical. I did learn some valuable things from both books, and that teacher. However that teacher (and my first one, for that matter) see students at a university campus, where I no longer work. So going back to them isn't really feasible at this time.

C.

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Check out mark Hanson's books and videos at accentonmusic.com. He's targeting exactly what you describe, and he's a very good teacher. (Does skype lessons too)

Mark's Contemporary Travis Picking book/CD lays out a good foundation for his 2nd book Art of Solo Fingerpicking. The two books are structured to be done in order for someone with your aspirations. I did the first and I am about a 1/3 through the 2nd. The songs and exercises in both books are very good.

[stanron]

I'm very fond of the Great American Songbook. I'm not all that fond of what modern jazz has done to it. I would think I was on fairly safe ground to say that modern jazz is a product of the 1940s onward. A whole lot of the songs in question were written before that. The versions in the jazz books will contain chords that were not in the songs as they first appeared, but unless you can go back to original scores you won't know what they were.

If you can't find original scores, and I've not found many, for free, you will be able to find early recordings of the songs and work out chords from them. Often the songs will work with very simple chords. The melody adds non chordal colour, sometimes scalar and sometimes chromatic, and these don't need to be added to the chords. In an instrumental, playing the bass notes and the melody covers a lot of the ground needed. Notes one and five of the chord will do the heavy lifting for bass, note three can be a passing note to the root of a IV chord or the five of a V chord and it can have other functions as well.

A song often has a sung line and then a space. With a band this space might be filled with an instrumental phrase or just the band's general accompaniment. The Merle Travis approach is mostly four bass notes per bar plus the occasional arpeggio note or notes to fill gaps. The benefit of this is that you don't have to be holding down too much of the current chord to get the melody and bass notes. When you need to add chord notes, there are no melody notes to find.

A softer effect for the 'fill', or non melody sections, is a form of bass note and strum. The strum is done with the first or second fingers of the picking hand using the back of the nails like a gentle pick in a downwards direction.

To sum up, the most important thing is the melody. Of secondary importance are the bass notes, one five, and somewhat less, three of the current chord, and last and quietest, chordal notes.

The jazz books contain charts for guitarists who will only, or mostly, play chords. They are good for getting the melody but the chords should be taken with a pinch of salt for a solo guitarist.