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  #1  
Old 07-31-2016, 03:44 PM
Fairlight Fairlight is offline
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Default Looking for path to better my lead playing

I've been playing somewhat successfully 'by ear" more or less all my life and admit that, as a middle-ager, I am a bit stuck in my ways. Rhythm playing comes natural for me. However, I've always wanted to be better and have more confidence with leads and solos. Not shredding or even being super fast, just stronger with simple navigation.

What has worked for you as far as a learning process for this? I tend to use shapes and geometry to move around now. Does one need to understand all of music theory to develop comfortable lead playing? I'm looking for basic scales, methods, anything that I can focus on that I can implement into my current style.

What do you all use, do or recommend?
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Old 07-31-2016, 04:25 PM
Mandobart Mandobart is offline
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I don't think one can ever learn all of music theory. If you:

1. know your fretboard - know which notes are at which frets on which strings, and you
2. know your scales and keys - know which are the sharps and flats in each key (and appropriate mode, i.e., if you're playing blues in E you flat the 3rd, so although G# is the right note in straight E scale, G natural is what you want for blues) and you
3. know what key you're playing each tune in

then you know a lot of what you need to improvise a lead.
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Old 07-31-2016, 06:39 PM
JohnDWilliams JohnDWilliams is offline
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There is no substitute for playing with others.
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Old 07-31-2016, 07:41 PM
stanron stanron is offline
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It depends to a certain extent on what you want to play. If it's blues or rock, the minor pentatonic scale is a good place to start. If the music you want to play is more 'melodic' then the place to start would be the major scale. If you know this scale around each of the five basic open chord shapes, and you know how these shapes invert up the guitar neck, then you have pretty much all the theory you need. Knowing how to change this scale to a minor and a modal scale would help.

After that being able to hear notes and then play them (hunt and peck is fine to start off with if you are prepared to persevere) is a skill worth acquiring.

As to methods of learning, playing with others might help except that if you get to playing with someone who is a lot better than yourself you might be tempted to go back to playing rhythm. Try playing along to stuff on the radio or TV or the tube. Do more playing than reading up on theory.
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Old 07-31-2016, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnDWilliams View Post
There is no substitute for playing with others.
I agree with JohnD on this one. If you are not able to find others to jam with record some grooves and play along

I also am an advocate of knowing where the triads are within a scale.
One other bit of advice is sing and record a line that you really like, then take some time to learn how to play it. It won't always translate well to guitar but it will help build a repertoire or riffs that you can fool around with
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Old 08-01-2016, 11:25 AM
Hotspur Hotspur is offline
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So I'm reading between the lines here to guess at what your ability is, but because you talk about theory and navigation, I think the solution is to develop your ear.

A lot of people think of themselves as playing "by ear" but that's something of a misnomer. They're really playing "by finger" - that is to say, they have a shape-based understanding of the fretboard, and they basically move their fingers around in a shape, sometimes they land on nice ideas, sometimes not so much, but they don't have a ton of MUSICAL control over what they're doing.

There's a saying that you can't play a solo until you can play a melody, and I think it's true.

Developing your ear is really about training your ear-mind-fretboard link. Can you hear an idea and quickly play it? If you can't do that, then you can't THINK and idea and quickly play it, either. My lead playing took a huge leap when my ear-mind-fretboard link got strong enough that I could (sometimes, at least) feel like my mind was telling my fingers what sounds I wanted to hear.
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Old 08-01-2016, 11:43 AM
Fairlight Fairlight is offline
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Thanks for all of these thoughts and tips. Very helpful. Hotspur, you've nailed exactly where I am. I like the way you put it... "ear-mind fret board link". I do have a strong ear and can hear in my head what I would do lead-wise, but can't always pull it off because all of my notes need to be anchored and stay strung together in a line for me to not to get too lost.

I'm mainly playing every week in a large church worship band. Great fun and a chance to jam with a variety of different players, all with different skill levels. The music itself also varies and changes up regularly from easy 4 chord stuff, complicated rhythms, key changes and using backing tracks. It's an excellent practice and collaboration situation (no one can boo or throw bottles in church if you screw up!). I agree totally with the need to stay connected to others and work off each other's ideas. There's no substitute.

As a start, I printed out a minor pentatonic scale with the 5 chord shapes and recognize a lot of what I am already incorporating into my solos. Just need to get better at memorizing and staying within the patterns. (This site seems to have some pretty easy to read scales: http://www.discoverguitaronline.com/.../browse/scales)

Incidentally, my wife is classically trained (piano) and says this approach is well and good, but I really need to know the actual note names, key sigs, etc. as a starting point if I want to truly understand what I'm playing. She's not wrong, but for me shapes click better in my head. It's kind of ironic because when she plays I'm always encouraging her to "go off chart" a little more and add some more emotion and style.
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Old 08-01-2016, 12:14 PM
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I wrote and posted an article on creating solos on my site called THE ART OF SOLOING. Maybe it would help.

Bob
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Old 08-01-2016, 02:08 PM
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So my advice would be to practice playing melodies. Start withs simple stuff you know by heart - nursery rhymes, movie themes, christmas carols. Then progress to more complex stuff. Focus on the melody lines.

I got a ton of mileage out of the functional ear trainer, which is a download from miles.be. YMMV but it was huge for me.

Spend 10-15 minutes a day working on this stuff, and I suspect you'll eventually see big results.
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Old 08-01-2016, 02:51 PM
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I posted this earlier in another thread:

It seems obvious to me when I do it but it sounds mysterious when I try to explain it. A guitar playing friend of mine was over the other day and we pulled out the guitars for a while. After watching me play for about 30 minutes, he said it was like watching someone climbing the monkey bars. I'd be playing around in a certain spot, start around the neck to another spot that fit the chord sequence and what I wanted to play with 3rds, 6ths, or just notes for example and he'd say, there you go climbing around on the monkey bars. He's a writer too so he's entitled to some poetic license I guess.

The easy answer is it is in the chords and chord tones. And when putting something down, I try to be sensitive to chord tones whether playing them, approaching them or enhancing them. Beyond that it is about scales, it is about intervals, and it is about location. And I think knowing a lot of chord shapes up the neck, knowing the appropriate scales and intervals that are in and around those chord shapes, and, this is where the monkey bars come in, how to move around the neck to connect em all up is where it comes together.

And it never hurts to have a selection of licks pure and simple. Last time my friend came over we spent an hour or so with me showing him B bender licks that can be played on an electric without a B bender. Hard to explain that in terms of chords, scales, notes etc. Really just musical tricks that can sound interesting in the context of a song. Or say ascending/descending 6ths (Brown Eyed Girl is the one everyone knows). Kind of a trick yes, almost a cliché yes, but done well and they can be very musical. There are a million of these licks, tricks, or whatever you want to call em that are part of the improvisation meat and potatoes. Sometimes you just have to hear them and go what was that with the right person in the room to show you.

That and I do a lot of careful listening both to others and to myself. And learning the melodies to the songs.

Takes time.

hunter
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Old 08-02-2016, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Womack View Post
I wrote and posted an article on creating solos on my site called THE ART OF SOLOING. Maybe it would help.

Bob

Excellent article Bob, thanks for sharing.
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Old 08-02-2016, 12:34 PM
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Thank you kindly!

Bob
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Old 08-02-2016, 04:29 PM
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Start with the minor pentatonics. They opened up a new world for me.

http://www.freeguitarsource.com/Blue...ues_Scale.html
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Old 08-02-2016, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotspur View Post
So my advice would be to practice playing melodies. Start withs simple stuff you know by heart - nursery rhymes, movie themes, christmas carols. Then progress to more complex stuff. Focus on the melody lines.

I got a ton of mileage out of the functional ear trainer, which is a download from miles.be. YMMV but it was huge for me.

Spend 10-15 minutes a day working on this stuff, and I suspect you'll eventually see big results.
Pretty much nails it. Theory and patterns may come in handy...eventually...but you're trying to play MUSIC. There's no substitute for actually grokking the essence of a song or melody. Going back to your earliest musical experiences is a great way to connect your ear, heart and hands.

In this day and age you can find many versions of a tune and the differences of approach can be enlightening. You don't want what you play to sound like technical exercises, you want it to sound like music.

Sing, sing and sing some more. Internalize the melody then exchange the guitar for your voice.

And...K.I.S.S.
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Old 08-02-2016, 09:17 PM
MuddyDitch MuddyDitch is offline
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The past several weeks I've been working with Micky Baker's Jazz book and I find the solo section has really cracked open a new world for me. I find myself noodling around playing sweet melodic phrases that astonishingly for me don't suck or sound repetitive.
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