travis picking vs fingerpicking

[LouieAtienza]

Originally Posted by Riverwolf

Dumb. Period.
Playing behind ones back. Also dumb.
Playing upside down, mostly dumb.
Playing a beat up guitar like Trigger. Dumb. Unless you are Willie Nelson...
OK, then it is still kinda dumb. You got the money, buy a new guitar...
Like rich women wearing jeans with holes and slits in them...
Wait, sorry, what was this thread about?

So Hendrix, SRV & Elvis, Willie, and Dick Dale were dumb?

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by LouieAtienza

Dick Dale played his guitar strung upside down...

hi LA

Lots of players do.

I've only met one who flipped his guitar over to play Cotten picking like Elizabeth Cotten did. I wasn't saying nobody else can or does.

[Cypress Knee]

Just my takeaway from the discussion so far and from watching the Bresh videos:

1. The Merle Travis style involved hitting the base note, then two or three other notes as the alternate bass chord- CHORD.

2. This is different from Chet Atkins, who would clearly articulate which bass note he was playing, so they were clean bass lines.

3. Most discussions about "Travis picking" do not talk about his left hand fretting techniques, particularly above the barre.

4. Not mentioned, but many folk-rock songs (John Denver's Country Roads for example) have more in common with a Mississippi John Hurt alternating bass with a treble pattern than they do with a Merle Travis song.

CK

[Mbroady]

Originally Posted by Riverwolf

Dumb. Period.
Playing behind ones back. Also dumb.
Playing upside down, mostly dumb.
Playing a beat up guitar like Trigger. Dumb. Unless you are Willie Nelson...
OK, then it is still kinda dumb. You got the money, buy a new guitar...
Like rich women wearing jeans with holes and slits in them...
Wait, sorry, what was this thread about?

I would be more inclined to say silly.

[LouieAtienza]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

hi LA

Lots of players do.

I've only met one who flipped his guitar over to play Cotten picking like Elizabeth Cotten did. I wasn't saying nobody else can or does.

Aye... just giving an example to the masses.... he's the most famous one I know, because of the distinctive tremolo-picked sound.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

hi LA

Lots of players do.

I've only met one who flipped his guitar over to play Cotten picking like Elizabeth Cotten did. I wasn't saying nobody else can or does.

I haven't met any, there's a couple of rock players who flipped their guitars that way: Gruff Rhys of Super Furry Animals, and Jimi Goodwin of Doves (on bass!).

[Silly Moustache]

I suspect that the term "picking" is an Americanism - When I started my club and called it the ******** (Town name) Pickers - people asked me if it was a cub for picking fruit!

In the UK at least a "pick" was always called a plectrum.

Of course much of the development of both the guitar AND playing styles developed in the USA durtingvthe 20th C., and so now we have

* Flat-picking style (which means different things to different people
* Strumming - not really a style just scrubbing the strings up and down.
* Plectrum style (or comping) which means rhythm style which replaced tenor banjo in dance/jazz bands
* Travis picking - which is, surely just the long established ragtime style
* Classical (three finger style
* Flamenco
* Hybrid flat-pick plus fingers

................ and probably almost as many other styles as there are creative and/or unschooled musicians.

Maybe because I'm a lefty playing righty, when I play my style of fingerstyle, my subordinate hand is the "picking" hand and I have never learnt how to use more than thumb and one (index) finger. I wonder what that is called?

So - what do you call thumb & 1 finger?
............................. thumb and two fingers ?

[LouieAtienza]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

I suspect that the term "picking" is an Americanism - When I started my club and called it the ******** (Town name) Pickers - people asked me if it was a cub for picking fruit!

In the UK at least a "pick" was always called a plectrum.

Of course much of the development of both the guitar AND playing styles developed in the USA durtingvthe 20th C., and so now we have

* Flat-picking style (which means different things to different people
* Strumming - not really a style just scrubbing the strings up and down.
* Plectrum style (or comping) which means rhythm style which replaced tenor banjo in dance/jazz bands
* Travis picking - which is, surely just the long established ragtime style
* Classical (three finger style
* Flamenco
* Hybrid flat-pick plus fingers

................ and probably almost as many other styles as there are creative and/or unschooled musicians.

Maybe because I'm a lefty playing righty, when I play my style of fingerstyle, my subordinate hand is the "picking" hand and I have never learnt how to use more than thumb and one (index) finger. I wonder what that is called?

So - what do you call thumb & 1 finger?
............................. thumb and two fingers ?

I have Albert Lee's REH video... Askold Buk was the interviewer, at one point asked him "What are you picking that with?" to which Albert replied, "A pick!!"

My brother was laughing so hard heis eyes were tearing!

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by JonPR

I haven't met any, there's a couple of rock players who flipped their guitars that way: Gruff Rhys of Super Furry Animals, and Jimi Goodwin of Doves (on bass!).

Hi JonPR

I've been actively playing for 50+ years, and teaching for over 40 years locally. I've met a lot of unique musicians in that amount of time.

I have had two lefty students (out of hundreds of students), and they were fun to teach. Like looking in a mirror when facing one another and playing.

And I have now met and spent time with several Cotten-style players. And one of those could play conventionally as well as Cotten-style. He was very capable (and more than a little full of himself). Apparently he learned it both ways because he'd gone through a spell of boredom. He could also lay a conventional guitar in his lap and play it.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi JonPR

I've been actively playing for 50+ years, and teaching for over 40 years locally. I've met a lot of unique musicians in that amount of time.

I have had two lefty students (out of hundreds of students), and they were fun to teach. Like looking in a mirror when facing one another and playing.

And I have now met and spent time with several Cotten-style players. And one of those could play conventionally as well as Cotten-style. He was very capable (and more than a little full of himself). Apparently he learned it both ways because he'd gone through a spell of boredom. He could also lay a conventional guitar in his lap and play it.

Interesting stuff! In my mere 15 years teaching I must have encountered proportionally more lefties - definitely more than two, although I couldn't count how many students I've taught in total; but it's certainly a lower proportion of lefties than in the public as a whole, which is interesting.
Never come across any who played in any otherwise unconventional way - probably because I've not met any who ever heard of Cotten, or seen anyone play in any other way, so it wouldn't occur to them.
The lefty beginners I've had are often indecisive about which way to go: to play LH or RH - I just say go with what you feel.
I can't recall any natural righties who preferred to play LH.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by JonPR

Interesting stuff! In my mere 15 years teaching I must have encountered proportionally more lefties - definitely more than two, although I couldn't count how many students I've taught in total; but it's certainly a lower proportion of lefties than in the public as a whole, which is interesting.
Never come across any who played in any otherwise unconventional way - probably because I've not met any who ever heard of Cotten, or seen anyone play in any other way, so it wouldn't occur to them.
The lefty beginners I've had are often indecisive about which way to go: to play LH or RH - I just say go with what you feel.
I can't recall any natural righties who preferred to play LH.

Hi JonPR

Here's one I hope to see in person sometime when we are in Nashville. Rory Hoffman.

He's blind, flips the guitar into his lap playing it with a flatpick Elizabeth Cotten style. Really amazing…I've seen a dozen videos of him (extended) and he's certainly musical as well as skilled. The song I posted below showcases his playing, singing, solo, jazz and ensemble play.



He plays mandolin, acoustic, electric, keyboards, winds, harmonica, accordion, etc…all with the same apparent ease. And he doesn't just play at them, he plays them like they are intended to be played. Just another North-Dakotan gone wild I guess…

Apparently someone forgot to tell him he can't do all this. Check him out on YouTube…

[agfsteve]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi JonPR

Here's one I hope to see in person sometime when we are in Nashville. Rory Hoffman.

He's blind, flips the guitar into his lap playing it with a flatpick Elizabeth Cotten style. Really amazing…I've seen a dozen videos of him (extended) and he's certainly musical as well as skilled. The song I posted below showcases his playing, singing, solo, jazz and ensemble play.



He plays mandolin, acoustic, electric, keyboards, winds, harmonica, accordion, etc…all with the same apparent ease. And he doesn't just play at them, he plays them like they are intended to be played. Just another North-Dakotan gone wild I guess…

Apparently someone forgot to tell him he can't do all this. Check him out on YouTube…

Wow! Thanks, Larry, for showing this, Rory is amazing. I found this video on youtube where he talks a bit about how and why he plays the way he does, then performs Autumn Leaves, and at about 11:00 he explains how he invented a harmonica that can be played chordally, then demonstrates by playing Nature Boy in chord melody form.

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by Mbroady

Finger picking - using your Fingers
Picking - using a pick
Other alternatives
Forced air (fan) - great on cranked electrics for a limited, but cool effect
Teeth plucking - ala Jimmy Hendricks
E-bow - Electromagnetic (I think- never really used one)

Any others?

Toe-picking
Nose-picking
Nit-picking

Oops, wrong thread!

[frankmcr]

To find out what "Travis picking" is, just go to youtube and type "Merle Travis" in the search box. There's a bunch of clips of the man himself playing guitar, and after listening to some clips you should get a feel for what elements make it "Travis style" as distinct from other picking styles.

Especially highly recommended is the clip of MT playing "Wildwood Flower", where the camera really closes in on his picking hand. That really shows you all you need to know. (Green sequined suit not required!)

[BFD]

Originally Posted by macmanmatty

I saw lots of threads on fingerstyle vs fingerpicking which I knew were just basically terms for the same thing. But what is the difference between travis picking and fingerpicking? If a play a song with a alternating bass and pick the melody is that travis picking? Does it have to have a pattern? If I throw in extra notes to make sort of a rhythm going on is it still travis picking? I pick some songs with an alternating bass using thumb and three fingers (index middle and ring) would that be travis picking? How often must the bass alternate in travis picking? Would the bass get four quarter notes in 4/4 time?

thanks

macmanmatty

To my thinking fingerpicking is mostly just arpeggiating chords, sometimes with basic embellishments; it's a style of accompaniment, somewhat more advanced than basic strumming.

IMO Fingerstyle guitar involves rendering melodic & harmonic content simultaneously on the guitar. Blues fingerstyle also often includes a lot of fills and turnarounds to punctuate vocals songs. Fingerstyle guitarists generally use a much richer harmonic palette than fingerpickers, employing a broader knowledge of the fingerboard and chord voicings and have a far more versatile picking hand.

Merle Travis was certainly a fingerstyle guitarist. He employed a very bass-driven, percussive, harmonically rich accompaniment to his singing and created rhythmically interesting and melodic fingerstyle solos.