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  #31  
Old 02-27-2017, 09:08 AM
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As a fingerstyle guitarist, I'm a mutt. I'm not formally trained and learned various styles because they were dictated by the song I was pursuing.

When arranging and composing fingerstyle instrumentals. I have the melody or verse in my head and then work out the melody in the chords which then determines the chords and position. The pattern develops in this process; fitting the feel I need for the piece.

FWIW- It's really important to build a foundation/palette of styles, chords, fingerings and phrases. These are learned from various resources as you learn and pursue musical interests/passions. I learned them as I pursued other artists, such as Tommy Emanuel. Mark Hanson has an approach I found easier for me to connect. Over the years I've gone to numerous fingerstyle resources when I needed new ideas. I learn much better visually so DVD's and YouTube have been great.

You may not play music or parts exactly like the artists you learned from, or even play their music, but there are pieces, styles, chords, and phrasing that you can learn from and inject into your music. Those pieces and tidbits become the tonal palette influencing the creation of new works.
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  #32  
Old 02-27-2017, 09:46 AM
TominNJ TominNJ is offline
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I haven't read all the replies so this may have been said already.

You're not obligated to play all the notes in the arrangements. Hal Leonard won't show up at your door and confiscate your songbook if you only finger some of the notes. Hit the melody note and whatever else is in easy reach.

Remember that those notes can be played in other places on the fretboard. I've seen arrangements with impossible finger stretches that can be played much more simply by playing one of the notes on the adjacent string. Exact same notes but much easier fingering. It makes me wonder what the arranger was thinking or if transcribing software created the error.
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  #33  
Old 02-27-2017, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by TominNJ View Post
I haven't read all the replies so this may have been said already.

You're not obligated to play all the notes in the arrangements. Hal Leonard won't show up at your door and confiscate your songbook if you only finger some of the notes. Hit the melody note and whatever else is in easy reach.

Remember that those notes can be played in other places on the fretboard. I've seen arrangements with impossible finger stretches that can be played much more simply by playing one of the notes on the adjacent string. Exact same notes but much easier fingering. It makes me wonder what the arranger was thinking or if transcribing software created the error.
Absolutely! I agree!

There's nothing wrong with guidance and instruction to assist technique, but an awkward or poorly executed note-for-note phrase is much less appealing than a well done musical phrase in the musician's hand. Sadly, I've had and heard other guitarists, in a scolding manner, correct a guitarist for not playing note for note like the original artist.
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  #34  
Old 02-27-2017, 11:46 AM
Wyllys Wyllys is offline
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Originally Posted by TominNJ View Post
I haven't read all the replies so this may have been said already.

You're not obligated to play all the notes in the arrangements. Hal Leonard won't show up at your door and confiscate your songbook if you only finger some of the notes. Hit the melody note and whatever else is in easy reach.

Remember that those notes can be played in other places on the fretboard. I've seen arrangements with impossible finger stretches that can be played much more simply by playing one of the notes on the adjacent string. Exact same notes but much easier fingering. It makes me wonder what the arranger was thinking or if transcribing software created the error.
Yup. Well-voiced triads and/or bass line and triads can give you all you need with no tonal redundancy (unless desired...) and very simple fingerings. Heck, even just the right two notes can suffice when your phrasing is strong.

The following triads may be recognized as having their basis in simple first position fingerings...using only the requisite 1-3-5 notes of the scale in various inversions/positions:

Wide open triads/extended 1st position forms

C major

3 x 2 x 1 x [C/G form]

x 3 x 0 x 0 [C form ]. or x 3 5 x 5 x [A form]

x x 2 x 1 3 or x 7 x 5 8 x [C form] or x 7 x x 8 8 [G form]

x x 5 x 5 8 [A form]. or x 10 x 9 x 8. [E form]
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Last edited by Wyllys; 02-27-2017 at 12:00 PM.
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  #35  
Old 02-27-2017, 12:29 PM
Wyllys Wyllys is offline
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Default Diatonic chord melody

This is just a taste of applying the above, the "bare bones" upon which you can add as you will, likewise set up your own rhythm. It is not meant to be an "arrangement" as such, just a bit of a fingering/voicing scheme to get you going.

Joy to the World, C major diatonic chord melody

Joy x x 7 x 5 8 [C6/A]

to x x 5 7 x 7 [G]

the x x 3 5 x 5 [F]

world x x 2 x 1 3 [C]
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  #36  
Old 02-27-2017, 01:02 PM
Grinning Boy Grinning Boy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyllys View Post
Yup. Well-voiced triads and/or bass line and triads can give you all you need with no tonal redundancy (unless desired...) and very simple fingerings. Heck, even just the right two notes can suffice when your phrasing is strong.
]
I totally agree...phrasing is as important as any other aspect. I believe a useful way to achieve interesting phrasing is by playing in the rubato style which to me is one of the great benefits of solo guitar....pure artistic expression! I don't think adhering to a straight tempo will always provide the best arrangement for the player or listener.

I will say I also enjoy hearing and playing interesting and unexpected harmonies and chords under the melody. I believe you can steal ideas like this from the jazz world and incorporate them to great effect in the steel string acoustic world.
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  #37  
Old 02-27-2017, 01:23 PM
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I totally agree...phrasing is as important as any other aspect. I believe a useful way to achieve interesting phrasing is by playing in the rubato style which to me is one of the great benefits of solo guitar....pure artistic expression! I don't think adhering to a straight tempo will always provide the best arrangement for the player or listener.

I will say I also enjoy hearing and playing interesting and unexpected harmonies and chords under the melody. I believe you can steal ideas like this from the jazz world and incorporate them to great effect in the steel string acoustic world.
Is rubato Latin for "funky"???

More JTTW:

Joy to the World, part 2

Joy _______ x x 5(5)5 8 ___ [C]

to ________ x 8 x 7 x 7 ___ [G7/F]
the ____________ (10)__________

world_______ x 7 x 5 8 x ___ [C/E]
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Last edited by Wyllys; 02-27-2017 at 01:56 PM.
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  #38  
Old 02-27-2017, 02:17 PM
reeve21 reeve21 is offline
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I
Remember that those notes can be played in other places on the fretboard. I've seen arrangements with impossible finger stretches that can be played much more simply by playing one of the notes on the adjacent string. Exact same notes but much easier fingering. It makes me wonder what the arranger was thinking or if transcribing software created the error.
Thanks for that permission. I'm just getting into this stuff, working on Mark Hanson's Over and Out Rag. I've been playing a fully barred F chord for a long time, but moving in and out of it quickly and getting all the notes to sound is harder finger style than when you are just strumming chord changes. So I have been cheating a little bit and playing it on the top 4 strings only. Good to know I'm not alone

Last edited by reeve21; 02-27-2017 at 05:48 PM.
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  #39  
Old 02-27-2017, 02:36 PM
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Go for note for note if it helps you learn new techniques, or breaks you out of a rut, or you just like it as written (each note choice seeming to be just as it should be).
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  #40  
Old 02-27-2017, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by reeve21 View Post
Thanks for that permission. I'm just getting into this stuff, working on Mark Hanson's Over and Out Rag. I've been playing a fully barred F chord for a long time, but moving in and out of it quickly and getting all the notes to sound is harder finger style than when you are just strumming chord changes. So I have been cheating a little bit and playing it on the top 4 strings only. Good to know I'm alone


You can play the notes in the F chord as you describe and get the 6th string F note by wrapping your thumb over the first fret. Might seem hard or awkward at first but a good technique to learn. This is a great tool to have for playing that chord in fingerstyle music.


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  #41  
Old 03-02-2017, 11:02 AM
JAMKC JAMKC is offline
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If you can learn the HOW behind putting these arrangements together for yourself from Steven King, that might be the way to go.

Another possibility is Adam Rafferty: www.adamrafferty.com

I have not studied with either, but did attend a few Taylor sponsored seminars with Steven King. I watched some introductory videos from Adam Rafferty on his site. Two different approaches.

In the absence of that, you can learn to work them out yourself. Here are a couple of quick guidelines:

1. The melody is the top note and should therefore be on the top two, and sometimes, third strings. You may have to transpose the melody to get it to fit. On the guitar, for fingerstyle, using open strings where possible takes advantage of the full sound of the guitar. The keys of C, A, G, E, and D are good to aim for if you want to do that (I am not talking about the CAGED system here, that is something else altogether).

2. Be able to play the melody on its own smoothly and with expression, as fi you are singing it. get to this point before trying to add anything else.

3. Put a bass line under the melody, typically on the 6th and 5th strings. Start simple with just the root note of the chords on beats 1 and 3, and then start playing around with other ideas from there. Listen to bass players (i.e. pay attention to that instrument when listening to music) to get a feel for what you are trying to accomplish (in a simplified manner) on the guitar.

4. When you have the melody and a reasonable bass line under it, all going smoothly, you can start fitting some harmony in between those two lines.

In general, this is the idea for a fingerstyle arrangement.

Another approach is what is called "chord melody". In this approach, you will still have the melody on top as before. but instead of building a separate bass line, you will be voicing chords under the melody notes, and pretty much moving from chord to chord. Listen to the jazz chord melody players to get a sense of this.

Between these two approaches, there is a lot of ground for developing your own unique style.

You mentioned Travis style picking. You can play a lot of tunes using that approach. Again, the melody is on top, but under it, you have that alternating bass banging back and forth, back and forth. Listen to Chet Atkins and his adherents for many examples of that style.

Other than a decent fakebook for the lead sheets for the tunes you want to play, you really don't need books to learn to do this. You do need to know the notes on the fretboard and how to spell chords though.

Tony


Tremendous post Tony.
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  #42  
Old 03-03-2017, 08:30 AM
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As others have indicated, the style you're looking for is chord melody, like Tommy Emmanuel and others from the Atkins tradition exemplify so proficiently. I'm also stumbling over that block, as are many here, because it's hard. It requires knowing some harmony and at least basic theory, to include chord inversions, extensions and substitutions and the ability to apply that to the guitar in a way that lets you find notes in ways that make sense physically and musically.

You can do this to some extent by finding videos on Youtube of people playing and teaching the songs you want to learn. For instance, I know there are lesson videos of Over the Rainbow, Moon River, Ain't Misbehavin', I Got Rhythm, Mr. Sandman, Cherokee, Wichita Lineman, etc., etc., just to name a few that I've looked at. You can learn a lot of songs that way, but it's other players' arrangements, which is not as satisfying as being able to improvise or create your own.

If you want to get serious about it, the Berklee Modern Method for Guitar, Vol. 1, takes a very common sense approach to teaching notation, harmony, chord structure and shapes, ear training, and other aspects of music education for guitar. It provides tablature reinforcement for the first few lessons, but assumes you will eventually wean yourself from that, which is not that hard. The new versions include a CD with supplemental material.

There are a lot of other books too, obviously, but the Berklee Method is widely regarded as a good and user-friendly developmental tool. The bottom line is that the music you want to play is the reward for a fair amount of applied study--if you want to do it right. That's why so few of us excel at that style of play.
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  #43  
Old 03-20-2017, 06:44 PM
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There is another thread here on fingerstyle, with a post by JonPR that says:

"There's basically two kinds of fingerstyle - OK, more than that, but two in this sense: (1) a way of breaking up chords to accompany a song (vocal); (2) instrumental pieces for solo performance (no vocal).

Most of the lessons you've seen are probably on the kind of patterns you'd use to accompany vocals (type (1) - so they would usually have no melody (because you'd be singing that)."

Me, the OP again. What JonPR posted was very helpful, and helped me understand why I'm so frustrated. I'm spending too much time on my own studying things like Travis picking, when in fact I am only interested in playing fingerstyle as solo instrumental. No singing. Just me, alone. I don't know whether fingerstyle patterns, including Travis style, even pertains to what I want to do!

I don't want to learn classical pieces, either, so classical guitar lessons aren't what I am looking for. I'm also not much interested in old blues. I want to recognize and love the songs I learn. My interest is the Great American Songbook: Moon River, Autumn Leaves, Over the Rainbow, etc., and possibly some golden pop standards that have beautiful melodies: Tears in Heaven, Imagine, etc.

I have lots of songbooks that have tab along with notation. They are supposedly easy arrangements. But I struggle, especially with figuring out fingering on the fretboard. Tab doesn't provide fretboard fingering. I try to take a cue from the underlying chord, as listed above each measure. But that doesn't always work out. So then I wonder if I need to go back to basics, at which I turn to Justin Sandercoe online, or my fingerstyle exercise books. But these resources seem to be focused primarily on picking patterns used when fingerstyle is an accompaniment to singing. So It's not as helpful as I want.

When I get stuck, I turn to one-on-one lessons. The teachers I've have each helped me grow, somewhat. But there's always something missing, primarily a curriculum that builds on itself. One teacher hated every arrangement in my songbooks, so my lessons were spent with him re-writing the arrangements. Not very helpful, and a huge waste of lesson time. Another teacher didn't mess with the arrangements, but spent too much time figuring out fingering in songs from MY songbooks, during the lessons. He also encouraged me to memorize and then improvise. That, too, is frustrating, as I don't yet have the foundation on which to improvise!

AAACCCKKKK!!!! I'm stuck and I'm frustrated as heck. How do I find a teacher or teaching resource that can teach me what I am wanting to learn: fingerstyle instrumental solo?? Preferably songs that I recognize and enjoy.

Thanks!
There are a couple of sites that might be right up your alley. Lots of songs like ones you mentioned, with tab. Some of Guitarnick's tabs also include fingerings.

http://www.guitarnick.com/index.html

https://www.guitarforbeginners.com/F...r-Lessons.html
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