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Old 08-07-2016, 04:00 PM
s0cks s0cks is offline
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Thumbs up Internalizing the Beat

Warning wall-of-text.

For years I've always struggled with rhythm and timing. I've sort of just ignored it and muddled on, but I've always felt like whenever I play a piece on the guitar it never sounds fluid or easy. It never sounds as musical as it should.

I've posted on here about issues with timing before and I've tried a number of different things but all seemingly have failed to produce results. As I'm skint, and entirely self taught, I often have trouble critiquing my own playing. I have to really dig deep and try and figure out where I'm going wrong.

Yesterday I decided to try a new approach. I decided to dance! Not just tap my foot, but also bop my head and swing my hips while I played. I found that this helped a lot! I guess this works because it's difficult to have your entire body moving to a beat and then have your hands play out of time, instead they stay in time.

What I noticed was that a little nagging voice in my head would want to play the note just before the beat had come. However, if I ignored that voice, let my mind just drift with the beat and, for lack of better words, I simply trusted my hand to play the note at the right time (sort of like autopilot) it sounded sooo much better. I guess this is why a lot of people say that playing in the pocket almost feels like you are behind the beat.

The other advantage was that even my left hand started getting in on the act. It would move with the beat as well, allowing me to hit the perfect note each and every time. It's like my whole body was in sync. I was even able to throw in some vocals and rather than trying to work my vocals around the chords/notes I instead was able to work them around the beat, which felt 100% more natural and was way more fun.

Now don't get me wrong, I was only able to achieve this state of mind for maybe 20 or 30 seconds at a time. I'd often fall out off the beat and find myself over-analyzing my timing again. I think that was what I found interesting too; if I tried to concentrate on the beat it made it worse. I had to let my mind drift and instead just feel the beat (it sounds so corny, but the English language doesn't have the words to describe it - almost like a state of meditation if you will).

This was a huge insight. When I was in that pocket and state of mind it felt freaking awesome. Really really fun. This is how I imagine proper musicians feel. I can't wait to keep practicing this. It worked with both strumming and fingerstyle.
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Old 08-07-2016, 05:19 PM
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Socks - I had this revelation also (this year no less - I've been playing for ten).

In large part, I'll credit Toby Walker with helping develop my rhythm, but there is a great Homespun lesson with Levon Helm (late of the Band) teaching drumming...He describes, walking, clapping your hands and reciting the song lyrics to get into the groove. That was the missing piece for me. It's an amazing video lesson if you're interested.

Remember - clap on the 2 and the 4!

best,

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Last edited by srick; 08-07-2016 at 05:53 PM.
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Old 08-08-2016, 07:15 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s0cks View Post
Warning wall-of-text.

For years I've always struggled with rhythm and timing. I've sort of just ignored it and muddled on, but I've always felt like whenever I play a piece on the guitar it never sounds fluid or easy. It never sounds as musical as it should.

I've posted on here about issues with timing before and I've tried a number of different things but all seemingly have failed to produce results. As I'm skint, and entirely self taught, I often have trouble critiquing my own playing. I have to really dig deep and try and figure out where I'm going wrong.

Yesterday I decided to try a new approach. I decided to dance! Not just tap my foot, but also bop my head and swing my hips while I played. I found that this helped a lot! I guess this works because it's difficult to have your entire body moving to a beat and then have your hands play out of time, instead they stay in time.

What I noticed was that a little nagging voice in my head would want to play the note just before the beat had come. However, if I ignored that voice, let my mind just drift with the beat and, for lack of better words, I simply trusted my hand to play the note at the right time (sort of like autopilot) it sounded sooo much better. I guess this is why a lot of people say that playing in the pocket almost feels like you are behind the beat.

The other advantage was that even my left hand started getting in on the act. It would move with the beat as well, allowing me to hit the perfect note each and every time. It's like my whole body was in sync. I was even able to throw in some vocals and rather than trying to work my vocals around the chords/notes I instead was able to work them around the beat, which felt 100% more natural and was way more fun.

Now don't get me wrong, I was only able to achieve this state of mind for maybe 20 or 30 seconds at a time. I'd often fall out off the beat and find myself over-analyzing my timing again. I think that was what I found interesting too; if I tried to concentrate on the beat it made it worse. I had to let my mind drift and instead just feel the beat (it sounds so corny, but the English language doesn't have the words to describe it - almost like a state of meditation if you will).

This was a huge insight. When I was in that pocket and state of mind it felt freaking awesome. Really really fun. This is how I imagine proper musicians feel. I can't wait to keep practicing this. It worked with both strumming and fingerstyle.
Excellent post, and a great lesson!
(IMO, all music teaching ought to begin with a lesson of this kind, before you even pick up an instrument.... Dance to a beat, clap to a beat, tap your foot to a beat...)
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Old 08-08-2016, 08:12 AM
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Most of the erratic timing I have notice in listening to people play has been from:

technique issues (for example not being able to form chords quickly, or right and left hand coordination)

memory lapses

and sometimes even the concept of continuity of a tune as a whole (for example being absorbed in little sections at a time (usually due to some technical issues) and then tacking on what comes next at whatever tempo instead of flowing into it

Technique practice and learning your tunes stone cold will help reduce or eliminate the above issues. That and thinking in broader musical phrases which makes it easier to be expressive in your playing while still maintaining your control of timing.
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Old 08-08-2016, 03:15 PM
s0cks s0cks is offline
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I had a lot of fun last night. Jammed for ages going over all the tunes I know and applying my new sense of rhythm. With one song I got wee bit emotional, which was odd because it's not a song I've really had any attachment too, but with proper rhythm it took on a whole new life.

I've got a way to go before this becomes second nature and I can get through a whole song with ease, but I'm genuinely excited! This was the breakthrough I've been trying to have for a long time.

And yes, I've also been clapping and tapping different beats on my walk to work. I had actually been doing this for a while but for some reason I was never able to fuse it into my playing until now. It's that shift in perception I guess. I've started to see the guitar more as a percussion instrument in it's own right.
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Old 08-08-2016, 04:12 PM
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Great post! In case this interesting, day one of my Thirty Day Guitar Challenge is all about this topic https://youtu.be/sWOa0vfv5FY Hopefully there's one or two ideas to add to your process..
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Old 08-09-2016, 11:50 AM
gfa gfa is offline
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Cool idea. I'll share a great tip I picked up recently. We all know that practicing with a metronome is very useful, and annoying as all get out. Someone suggested using a drum machine app instead of a metronome. It's so much better in so many ways. Lots of free apps available. I haven't found one that I truly love, but free is free ...
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Old 08-09-2016, 03:35 PM
s0cks s0cks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by min7b5 View Post
Great post! In case this interesting, day one of my Thirty Day Guitar Challenge is all about this topic https://youtu.be/sWOa0vfv5FY Hopefully there's one or two ideas to add to your process..
Thanks, I will have a watch!

I was able to, for a very brief period, get my left hand in on the groove again last night. This is the most difficult thing to do. There is something magical about playing when both hands sync up with the beat. Not something I have felt before, ever. I want to figure out some practice routines to instill this sense of groove. I need it, so badly! At the moment I can only reach that sort of state when I'm dancing around like a mad man - which is fun but would probably get me some odd looks, and it's not as easy playing when your moving all over the place.
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Old 08-09-2016, 06:04 PM
s0cks s0cks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by min7b5 View Post
Great post! In case this interesting, day one of my Thirty Day Guitar Challenge is all about this topic https://youtu.be/sWOa0vfv5FY Hopefully there's one or two ideas to add to your process..
I watched your video. Makes a lot of sense. I have had heard many people who suggest the 2 & 4 beat approach. I will say though, this didn't really help me reach a breakthrough when I tried it in the past.

My issue is that I never tried to feel the metronome beat, rather I tried to consciously anticipate the beat. It wasn't until I started to dance that I was able to hone in on that feeling of groove. Now I know how it feels I have a much better time with the metronome. Sometimes I even end up tapping my foot on the 2 and 4 without realizing, because everything just starts slotting together it all feels natural (until I realize I'm doing it, start thinking about it, and fall out of the pocket).

I'm so ecstatic about this development that I just want to go home and play! **** work.
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Old 08-10-2016, 12:23 PM
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Interesting thread. I am not much of a dancer; I've got two left feet and some leftover childhood baggage regarding the sins of dancing.

However I have long been a fan of using the metronome to help me master consistent timing in a song.

Just yesterday I got the Beat Buddy that I ordered and I have to say it seems to be a nice compromise to the OP's idea and a plain vanilla click track.

The variety of rhythms available in the machine is quite impressive and I'm looking forward to internalizing some nice rhythmic upgrades to my music.
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Old 08-10-2016, 02:44 PM
Denny B Denny B is offline
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I think the only thing that I had going for me when I started learning guitar was that dancing WASN'T required...
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Old 08-10-2016, 05:48 PM
s0cks s0cks is offline
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I spent a few hours with my metronome last night. Really highlighted my poor timing. But I was able to slot into the pocket a few times, which was nice. Again, I was often able to achieve this by really getting my body moving, even sitting down I would rock my body back and forth, tap my foot, and bop my head. The more muscles I had engaged in the beat the easier I was able to lock my arm/hand in on the beat too.

It's hard to explain, but it's really forcing me to lead with my right hand. Unbeknownst to me I clearly have a novice habit of my right hand following my left.

Last edited by Kerbie; 02-01-2017 at 07:02 AM. Reason: Removed masked profanity
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Old 08-10-2016, 06:53 PM
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I started using Eric Skye's recommendation from his 30 day Challenge to play behind the beat and I think it's really helpful. With the metronome tick/tock at 1/2 the tempo I am playing, it's easier to find and stay in the groove. I do the same if I play with drum tracks. Thanks Eric!
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