Aw, nuts! (stripped truss rod nut on National)

[Tone Gopher]

So much for NGD.

I pulled the guitar out of its case and immediately noted excessive action - even for a National. When I removed the truss rod cover, I found a buggered truss rod nut.

Note to everyone: National Resophonic truss rod nuts are reverse thread.

I wrote National this morning and got a rapid response (I was impressed). One suggestion was to purchase a tapered truss rod wrench/driver from Stewart-MacDonald. Anyone used one of these?

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Truss_ro...xst=3&xsr=3211

If I can get it to move, does anyone have any experience with removing the nut from the guitar? It looks like the faceplate may have to be opened and then covered back up with a larger truss rod cover.

For those following my tricone quest, this is a Style 97, dated 11/02.

[Aaron Smith]

So the nut has an internal hex that's stripped? If so, it's not a big deal if you can just get the nut loose. If the threads on the nut or the rod are stripped, it is a much bigger problem (although it can still be solved).

The tapered StewMac wrenches may work, but I'm guessing not if the hex is fully stripped. Since you said that it's a left-handed thread, I would get a set of right-handed thread taps from Harbor Freight and use the biggest one that fits into the hex recess like an EZ-out. You can then (probably) get a replacement nut from National.

If what I wrote doesn't make sense to you, the best bet would be to take it to an experienced tech; once the nut is loose, it is not a hard repair and would probably be pretty cheap.

I walked away from buying a used National recently because the nut was sloppy and seemed well on it's way to stripped. Is this a common problem with Nationals? Just asking.

[Tone Gopher]

Originally Posted by J-Doug

I walked away from buying a used National recently because the nut was sloppy and seemed well on it's way to stripped. Is this a common problem with Nationals? Just asking.

Apparently:

http://nationalguitars.com/admin/faq.html

Whenever you adjust a truss rod, whether you are a certified repair person or not, always use caution. For many years, our truss rods have adjusted the opposite of what is considered “normal” (counterclockwise to straighten the neck, clockwise to add relief). When we introduced the ResoRocket in 2004, we also introduced our newly designed truss rod that adjusts clockwise to straighten the neck, and counterclockwise to add relief. In January, 2005, we started using the new truss rods for all of our instruments.

****ALWAYS USE CAUTION****
1st Sight the neck and determine which direction your neck adjustment needs to be made.
2nd Detune the strings slightly.
3rd Insert a 1/8 Allen wrench all the way into the broached barrel nut, and make a very small adjustment. Sight the neck again. Has the neck moved in the direction you want it to? If so, continue adjusting as needed. Retune the guitar and check your progress.

****DO NOT OVER CRANK THE BARREL NUT****
Even trained professionals have stripped out truss rods by being over-zealous, going the wrong direction, and not checking their progress. We encourage you to call the factory at 805-546-8442 from 9 a.m.–4 p.m. Pacific Time, Monday–Friday if you have any questions.

************************************************** ***

Given that most will assume a right hand thread and just turn harder if the neck doesn't respond, I can see why a reverse thread is a problem. The issue with this guitar is that only 38 were made in the series. I'm going to try to make this work - somehow.

[Tone Gopher]

Originally Posted by Aaron Smith

So the nut has an internal hex that's stripped? If so, it's not a big deal if you can just get the nut loose. If the threads on the nut or the rod are stripped, it is a much bigger problem (although it can still be solved).

The tapered StewMac wrenches may work, but I'm guessing not if the hex is fully stripped. Since you said that it's a left-handed thread, I would get a set of right-handed thread taps from Harbor Freight and use the biggest one that fits into the hex recess like an EZ-out. You can then (probably) get a replacement nut from National.

That all makes sense to me. In fact, I have both taps and Easy-Outs. The only rub is that this nut is recessed in a very small space and doesn't look like it'll come out once loose - that's why I was asking if anyone has actually done it.

Thanks, tho', for the response.

[BluesBelly]

Maybe a self threading nut?

http://www.fastenercomponents.com/pr...uts-p-239.html

Blues

[Tone Gopher]

The challenge is getting the left-handed nut with the stripped socket off the guitar.

I tried the tapered Stew-Mac tool - no go.

National told me there were two ways it could go. They could try to drill out the broach (~$100) or, if that doesn't work, replace the neck (~$800).

Bottom line: I'm not a gambler - this guitar (2002 Style 97, #017), rare bird or not, is going back to Guitar Center.

Back to the questing...

Originally Posted by BluesBelly

Maybe a self threading nut?

http://www.fastenercomponents.com/pr...uts-p-239.html

Blues

[Mattbob]

Any update on this? I've never had to do it, but as the truss rods on my steel bodied resonators are reverse as well I can imagine I will ahve to fix this for someone one day.

I'll just add to this discussion for any who might end up reading it. Adjust the truss rod to adjust relief, don't use it to adjust the action. It makes adjustments in the thousandths of the inch, mainly in the middle section of the neck. Don't be that guy who cranks on it, knows you did something bad, and puts the truss rod cover plate back on.

[Tone Gopher]

Originally Posted by Mattbob

Any update on this? I've never had to do it, but as the truss rods on my steel bodied resonators are reverse as well I can imagine I will ahve to fix this for someone one day.

Originally Posted by Tone Gopher

The challenge is getting the left-handed nut with the stripped socket off the guitar.

I tried the tapered Stew-Mac tool - no go.

National told me there were two ways it could go. They could try to drill out the broach (~$100) or, if that doesn't work, replace the neck (~$800).

Bottom line: I'm not a gambler - this guitar (2002 Style 97, #017), rare bird or not, is going back to Guitar Center.

Back to the questing...

Thanks for asking, Matt. I took the guitar to my local Guitar Center and they accepted it without hassle. That's the good news. The iffy news is that I expect it will go back on the market as-is (it needs a neck reset also).

National Resophonic changed their truss rods in 2005 - they now use a right-handed thread. I'd suggest that you also consider using a "standard" thread to avoid the issue in the future.

[JLS]

That's the one consistently positive thing about GC.

That reverse turning trussrod, my, what a surprise that could be!