Is ThisThe Correct Chain to Amp?

[rmsstrider]

I am still new to setting up the proper chain before my amp. I could use some advise if I am doing this right or could improve.
Cf guitar with Fishman Prefix Plus T pickup and Sennheiser E835 mic.
What I have now.
Guitar to Fishman Aura 16 pedal blended 1/2image and 1/2 pickup to TC Helcion Harmony singer to Rcf lpad 6 channel mixer with a little reverb to Bose L1 compact. The Sennheiser to the Harmony singer to the mixer to the Bose. One cable out from the mixer to the Bose input.
What confuses me is that everything has a gain or trim and volume. Do I set all the volumes in the chain to 1/2 and then use the mixer to set final gain and volume to the Bose? Do I not use any of the gain or trim functions on the pedals and just use that on the mixer? Also, I don't see a way to get an XLR cable from the pedals to the mixer if I wanted to place the board some distance away. Do I need a DI box? Can I just buy a tuner pedal with a mute and XLR Out?
Any help appreciated. Thanks.

[jseth]

Google "gain staging" and take the time to read it and process it... the information will serve you for the rest of your days!

First off, you have that guitar running through a LOT of stuff before it gets to the Bose!

(one of my general rules of thumb: keep things as simple as possible!)

The more devices between your guitar and the amplifier, the more difficult it is to achieve the best sound possible. So, make sure you want/need all that stuff in the chain!

Do all of this with the overall volume turned off or WAY DOWN LOW!

Start with your guitar and turn the volume on it all the way up... do this even if you might "roll it back" at times... then go to the next unit in the signal path, and adjust the gain setting using sound from the guitar; play it as oud as you are going to be playing it in performance. Turn up the trim/gain until the signal starts clipping (there is usually some sort of led that will blink red when it clips), then back it down until any clipping is only every once in a while and only at REALLY loud notes...

Then do the same thing, all the way to the Bose... and do it for every piece of gear you are using. Some units will not have an led light for clipping; in that case, you will need to use your own ears and listen closely for the sound to become distorted.

Once you have all the input signals adjusted into your mixer, then use the out to the Bose to set THAT gain... and you're good to go!

Hope this helps...

[rmsstrider]

Originally Posted by jseth

Google "gain staging" and take the time to read it and process it... the information will serve you for the rest of your days!

First off, you have that guitar running through a LOT of stuff before it gets to the Bose!

(one of my general rules of thumb: keep things as simple as possible!)

The more devices between your guitar and the amplifier, the more difficult it is to achieve the best sound possible. So, make sure you want/need all that stuff in the chain!

Do all of this with the overall volume turned off or WAY DOWN LOW!

Start with your guitar and turn the volume on it all the way up... do this even if you might "roll it back" at times... then go to the next unit in the signal path, and adjust the gain setting using sound from the guitar; play it as oud as you are going to be playing it in performance. Turn up the trim/gain until the signal starts clipping (there is usually some sort of led that will blink red when it clips), then back it down until any clipping is only every once in a while and only at REALLY loud notes...

Then do the same thing, all the way to the Bose... and do it for every piece of gear you are using. Some units will not have an led light for clipping; in that case, you will need to use your own ears and listen closely for the sound to become distorted.

Once you have all the input signals adjusted into your mixer, then use the out to the Bose to set THAT gain... and you're good to go!

Hope this helps...

Thanks for responding. I will be reading up on gain staging.
I don't understand why you say I have a lot of stuff before the Bose. I only have 2 pedals and a mixer. An imaging pedal for the guitar and a harmony singer for vocals, which the guitar signal does also pass through. Then I am at my mixer. Is this a lot?

[jseth]

Not as much as some, but I would always prefer to have my rig be as clean as possible... so, yes, to me, it's "a lot" to be running both the guitar and your vocal into the Harmony Singer thing... I understand that the Aura pretty much HAS to run through the imaging pedal.

If you truly need the Harmony Singer in the line, then go for it... just be sure to set all the gain stages along the way and you should be fine.

[MrErikJ]

So, it seems like you could slightly simplify it. I would set your pickup signal just slightly below maximum. As an active pickup, you don't really need it goosed to have a quality signal and it's nice to have some place to go if you need to get slightly louder.

Turn the output of your Aura to about 1 or 2 o'clock. Set the gain/trim at noon and play hard, if the signal is still clean turn it up until it distorts, then turn it down until the sound is clean when played loudly. Leave your trim there. Turn the volume up more if your mixer seems like it's not getting enough signal.

I'm slightly confused why you're running the Aura into the Harmony Singer, but perhaps I don't understand the product. I would reserve the Harmony Singer for your vocal mic. Run a XLR (the Aura is a DI box) out of your Aura and into the preferred channel of your mixer. Set the level/volume to Unity (0) and adjust the gain using the same method as before, except look at the VU meter. If it bounces into yellow when playing at level and slightly into red at your hardest, you're set. Use the level on the channel to adjust the volume of that channel. Run a XLR out of your Harmony Singer into a dedicated channel and do the same, setting gain and volume.

I would turn the master volume up a little bit on the mixer and the the Bose and then adjust the Bose's overall volume with the gain/trim.

[JayBee1404]

"I'm slightly confused why you're running the Aura into the Harmony Singer"

Because the Harmony Singer needs the signal from the guitar to identify the chord and provide the vocal with the correct harmony/ies?

I used to have a Vocalist-2 and both guitar (via a midi device) and vocal mic went through it - I'm guessing that the Harmony Singer works similarly.

But please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[jazzguy]

Does the Bose have enough input channels? If so, not sure you need the mixer. Adding another Pre-amp stage via the mixer may be unnecessary and add additional noise.

[rmsstrider]

Thanks for the replies. Yes, the harmony singer needs the guitar input. The Bose has one input for guitar and one for the mic, but only the one 1/4 input is used from the mixer. Unfortunately I do not have XLR out from the pedals for guitar, only XLR out for the mic. I am trying to make things simple and still use these 2 pedals. I would like a suggestion as to how to provide an XLR out to the mixer for guitar. The Aura pedal is 1/4 to the harmony singer and the harmony singer is 1/4to the mixer. The mic just goes into the harmony of the singer via XLR and out to the mixer via XLR.

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by rmsstrider

Thanks for the replies. Yes, the harmony singer needs the guitar input. The Bose has one input for guitar and one for the mic, but only the one 1/4 input is used from the mixer. Unfortunately I do not have XLR out from the pedals for guitar, only XLR out for the mic. I am trying to make things simple and still use these 2 pedals. I would like a suggestion as to how to provide an XLR out to the mixer for guitar. The Aura pedal is 1/4 to the harmony singer and the harmony singer is 1/4to the mixer. The mic just goes into the harmony of the singer via XLR and out to the mixer via XLR.

Ok, that makes sense. I’m clearly not familiar with the harmony singer.

I’d just pick up a simple, passive, Direct Box and run a short patch cable out of your harmony singer and then a XLR to your mixer. You should have plenty of juice from the previous preamplifiers that you just need a simple passive box to balance your signal. Should be a simple and pretty cheap solution.

[rmsstrider]

Originally Posted by MrErikJ

Ok, that makes sense. I’m clearly not familiar with the harmony singer.

I’d just pick up a simple, passive, Direct Box and run a short patch cable out of your harmony singer and then a XLR to your mixer. You should have plenty of juice from the previous preamplifiers that you just need a simple passive box to balance your signal. Should be a simple and pretty cheap solution.

Perfect, thanks any Di box you would suggest?

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by rmsstrider

Perfect, thanks any Di box you would suggest?

Hard to go wrong with the Radial Pro DI

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ProDI