Open/alternate tunings on a nylon?

[sevenpalms]

Help!! I can't seem to locate anything on this, but, I have a nice nylon string in transit as of today. Standard tuning is fun but I really love to play in open and alternate tunings on my steel string but have very little experience with a nylon string guitar. I would love to be able to put it in DADGAD without it sounding like I'm playing 6 rubber bands...

Anybody have experience with this? Any suggestions as to what strings would work best, etc...? Appreciate any feedback.


Thanks!

[Howard Emerson]

Originally Posted by sevenpalms

Help!! I can't seem to locate anything on this, but, I have a nice nylon string in transit as of today. Standard tuning is fun but I really love to play in open and alternate tunings on my steel string but have very little experience with a nylon string guitar. I would love to be able to put it in DADGAD without it sounding like I'm playing 6 rubber bands...

Anybody have experience with this? Any suggestions as to what strings would work best, etc...? Appreciate any feedback.


Thanks!

Hi Jeff,
Are you using extra hard tension strings to start with? If you're not it would probably be easier to tune up to EBEABE, same thing as DADGAD but a whole step higher.

I have regularly tuned my very old Salvador Ibanez flamenco (C.1910) to open E with extra hard tension strings. Seeing as open E and the tuning I suggested only have one 1/2 step lower on one string (3rd), you'll be safe no matter what kind of strings you're using.

If you insist on DADGAD in particular you'll have to go as heavy as possible and might have to raise your action as well.

HE

[sevenpalms]

Thanks Howard! Actually haven't received the guitar yet but I like your suggestion of open E. That's a good idea as I usually capo anyway. I just want to make certain that strings 3, 4 and 5 aren't putting too much tension on the bridge. Do you think a lighter tension set of strings would be a good idea?

Really appreciate the feedback! Glad to have this resource available.

[j3ffr0]

I play quite a bit in alternate tunings. I use hard tension strings and can do DADGAD and most other alternate tunings without a problem.

The one difference in alternate tuning with nylon vs steel is that it takes the strings a while to adjust themselves to a different tuning. So if you are playing a live show with steel strings an change from standard to something else you are pretty much good as soon as you get it in tune. With nylon it takes a while for the strings to settle.

The upside of alternate tuning with nylon strings is you can change as much as you like without worry of breaking a string.

[sevenpalms]

Originally Posted by j3ffr0

The upside of alternate tuning with nylon strings is you can change as much as you like without worry of breaking a string.

Thanks....I gotta imagine it's a lot easier on the fingernails too!

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by j3ffr0

The upside of alternate tuning with nylon strings is you can change as much as you like without worry of breaking a string.

Thats not really true...you just won't put an eye out when the string gives up the ghost.

But eventually, even nylon strings break, particularly the wound strings. You'll likely see wear eventually at the saddle from a lot of tuning/retuning...

But nylon strings can handle alternates...a lot of great Spanish pieces are in Drop D, DGDGBE, and open G.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by Howard Emerson

Hi Jeff,
Are you using extra hard tension strings to start with? If you're not it would probably be easier to tune up to EBEABE, same thing as DADGAD but a whole step higher.
...

or even split the difference with Eb.

[Howard Emerson]

Originally Posted by sevenpalms

Thanks Howard! Actually haven't received the guitar yet but I like your suggestion of open E. That's a good idea as I usually capo anyway. I just want to make certain that strings 3, 4 and 5 aren't putting too much tension on the bridge. Do you think a lighter tension set of strings would be a good idea?

Really appreciate the feedback! Glad to have this resource available.

Ultimately harder tension strings give much better intonation, and the bridge can take the extra tension on the 3 strings.

I don't know if it is actually a fact, but my observation over the 15+ years I've owned my old Salvador Ibanez is that the strings tend to break more the less I play them.

It appears the D spontaneously gives at the saddle while not being played, and it has happened several times.

HE

[sevenpalms]

Thanks for all the great feedback!!

[RWG]

I alternate between standard and drop D. I have found it is best to chat a bit about the next couple of tunes to fill some time after tuning and then touch up the tuning again before I start playing. j3ffr0 mentioned already about nylon needing to settle. I used to use two guitars, one in each tuning, to get around this problem but lugging around two guitars, and keeping track of them so they don't grow legs, was too much trouble.

[wcap]

Before getting my nice steel string guitars, I played in drop d and DADGAD on my classical all the time. I'd cycle through these two, and standard tuning too, each time I sat down to play.

I avoided open E or E minor though - the first time I tried raising the tension of the two strings for open E minor one of the strings broke. I might just be being obsessive and superstitious or something, but I just don't like the idea of putting extra tension like this on my classical.

[spayzkadet]

I'm fairly new at the dropped tuning thing, but do have a few that work for the blues-pop-eclectic stuff that I play:

DGCFAD, dropped standard tuning - all strings dropped one whole step below standard EADGBE.

DADFAD, open D minor.

DGEbFAD, great for old twelve-bar blues, like Rev. Gary Davis stuff.

The three treble strings always stay tuned FAD, and the 4th and 5th basses are often tuned up or down one-half to one whole step to suit the song. All bass strings usually played open for drone effect, trebs carry the melody.

Have been using these with DiAddario Pro-Arte EJ46 hard tension strings, once settled in they stay in tune and they don't have the floppy clothesline feel .

Recently been experimenting with CADFAD for "It Came Upon A Midnight Clear" and may have to go with an extra hard tension string for the bass 6th.

My guitar is a student grade Hohner with no truss rod in the neck, so it seems prudent to use lowered tunings in the interest of instrument longevity - that, and the fact that they just sound so cool .

spayzkadet

[MatthewVanitas]

Came here to post just this topic, so bumping a thread from a few weeks back.

I'm a big fan of dark and droning stuff, modal experiments with heavy root-fifth backing, etc. Such styles seem a lot more popular with steel-string players (with American roots-folk musician Tim Eriksen being a great example), but I have a soft spot for nylon mellowness, so I try to replicate those styles on the nylon guitar.

I've been using mostly DADGAD on my guitar for the last few months; it's an older Japanese-made Yamaha Dynamic that I picked up at a market in Kabul, and it's awesome. I recently broke a string on it, so I was going to search here about the best way to restring it to be DADGAD friendly, but from the posts above it seems I just need to get a heavier than usual set so that the dropped strings won't be too floppy.

I'm thinking to get the Nylgut strings (in heavy gauge) for my restringing, so will try and report back here once I get them set up. Really glad to see other folks here playing with alternate tunings; to my outsider's eye classical guitarists seem rather stodgy about alternate tunings. Then again, oddly enough, so are ukulele players, who appear mystified that I would enjoy playing tenor ukulele with banjo-inspired "Sawmill" tuning in GCFG. Alternate tunings are, for me, a great way to stretch out my brain!

[spayzkadet]

Hi Matthew, good to hear from another droner ! Will have to check out the Tim Eriksen stuff. Wondering about Norwegian langliek folk music, I know it's a droning style but not sure if guitars are used. If you like the extreme in dropped tunings, Joni Mitchell did a song in the early 70s, "This Flight Tonight" (unsure of album) that was tuned GGDGBD on a steel string acoustic. Yes, the bass 6th string is tuned DOWN to G! Kinda doubt that a nylon string git could be tuned that low, but one might get close .

Your older Yamaha should be a great vehicle for trying different strings. I'm still using D'A Pro-Arte hard tensions, will switch to the same but extra hard when these go dead. Others hard and x-hard recommended on this forum have been Oasis carbons, GHS Muriel Anderson Signature w/titanium trebles, several more. A few searches here will yield some good strings to try to suit your style.

Good luck with it, and keep on stretching that brain !


spayzkadet

[Garthman]

I keep one classical guitar permanently in standard D (DGCFAD). I use La Bella 850B-HT high tension strings. It's fine.