Small Amp vs Line Array

[mynameis]

And who can forget about these:

http://www.peavey.com/products/versarray/index.cfm

I'm sure 5-6 of them plus rigging should fit in the back of a honda civic.

[JohnZ]

Originally Posted by tdrake

Covered wagons and digital line arrays. What a bizzare world we inhabit.
td

And generator power. Right now I'm barely getting enough juice and may have to use the Carvin if new lines aren't run.

[endpin]

Originally Posted by BoB/335

Yeah, BUT, does anyone know if the above or the JBL CBT 100LA are REAL Line-arrays????

The JBLs are line arrays with additional passive delay line technology for improved dispersion control over what you get with the basic vertically stacked drivers.

[DrDavid]

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

The JBL gear appears to be wall-mountable, but not designed to travel and be put up on a speaker stand.

There does appear to be a speaker stand mount available as an option:

http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/suppor...e=3&docid=1459

They also appear to require an amplifier, yes?

Yes, for sure. They are passive.

Here's a very brief summary that I found:

http://www.gearwire.com/jbl-cbtseries.html

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by BoB/335

Yeah, BUT, does anyone know if the above or the JBL CBT 100LA are REAL Line-arrays????

The humor of this sort of post is not lost on me...however, the practical side of this issue is significant to me, and depending on circumstances, will impact the on-stage use of any supposed-line-array system.

If it works like the Bose and BagAmp systems, then the sound propagation qualities (for me, and perhaps for others) will relate to allowing for a lower on-stage/monitor volume (with similar volume reaching the audience) with these systems compared to others, such as the SoloAmp.

I personally do not care what technically qualifies as a true line array...I only want to know what the functionality of any system provides for when in-use. Now, if there is some technical line-of-demarcation that can be stated as fact when evaluating these systems, great. If not, the simple in-use test will suffice for me.

P.S. This thread is now past the 300 post barrier, so it may be closed at any moment. Someone will have to start a "part 2" thread to continue....

[knuckle]

Well I tried the Bose, I tried the Soloamp and this is what I got.
I was going to buy 2 speakers, 1 as a backup. I still might. I got a small mackie mixer too.

I hope this speaker will do the job and be loud enough.


Mixer
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com...xer?sku=630343

Speaker
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com...ker?sku=581518


I'll probably end up with an RA-400 towards the end of the year. This is what reso players are using with good luck as well and I'll have this as extra volume if needed. Hopefully this sounds as good as it did in the store.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by knuckle

Well I tried the Bose, I tried the Soloamp and this is what I got.
I was going to buy 2 speakers, 1 as a backup. I still might. I got a small mackie mixer too.

I hope this speaker will do the job and be loud enough.


Mixer
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com...xer?sku=630343

Speaker
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com...ker?sku=581518


I'll probably end up with an RA-400 towards the end of the year. This is what reso players are using with good luck as well and I'll have this as extra volume if needed. Hopefully this sounds as good as it did in the store.

Hi Knuckle,

Those are great pieces of gear. I have a Mackie 802VLZ3 and a pair of QSC K10 speakers and everything sounds and works well together. You may find that you won't need the RA-400. Let us know how everything sounds for you!

Regards,

SpruceTop

[ferg]

Originally Posted by knuckle

Mixer
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com...xer?sku=630343

Speaker
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com...ker?sku=581518


I'll probably end up with an RA-400 towards the end of the year. This is what reso players are using with good luck as well and I'll have this as extra volume if needed. Hopefully this sounds as good as it did in the store.

Whoa - K12....nice. No personal experience, but that's a beefy a speaker. Honestly, you may find that's good enough, though, a mixer with some effects may be in order down the road.

[tdrake]

Originally Posted by knuckle

Well I tried the Bose, I tried the Soloamp and this is what I got.
I was going to buy 2 speakers, 1 as a backup. I still might. I got a small mackie mixer too.

I hope this speaker will do the job and be loud enough.


Mixer
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com...xer?sku=630343

Speaker
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com...ker?sku=581518


I'll probably end up with an RA-400 towards the end of the year. This is what reso players are using with good luck as well and I'll have this as extra volume if needed. Hopefully this sounds as good as it did in the store.

I think that was an excellent choice!

[BoB/335]

Originally Posted by knuckle

Well I tried the Bose, I tried the Soloamp and this is what I got.
I was going to buy 2 speakers, 1 as a backup. I still might. I got a small mackie mixer too.

I hope this speaker will do the job and be loud enough.


Mixer
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com...xer?sku=630343

Speaker
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com...ker?sku=581518


I'll probably end up with an RA-400 towards the end of the year. This is what reso players are using with good luck as well and I'll have this as extra volume if needed. Hopefully this sounds as good as it did in the store.

The band I am in recently got a Mackie board and the improvement in the vocals over the last board (don't know what it was) is quite a bit. Personally I need effects.

Wondering why a K12 and not a K10. I have been on a keyboard forum where keyboardists are using a K10 either in a solo/duo act or as their monitor in a band situation and are very happy with it. The K series is still in the running for me. If the 10's are good enough for keys I can't see a reason for a 12.

You say you tried the Bose (assuming the Compact) and the SolAmp. I would love to hear some feedback on that experience and why you opted for the speaker/mixer route. Did you try anu other speakers?

Sorry for all the questions. I would think that no matter what, that you have some great gear there and will be very satisfied!

[BoB/335]

Gave my wife a Surprise Birthday Party last night. (I can't do no wrong at least for today anyway) I played 3 songs accompanied by my friend on Congas. (Boy can he play those things) I used my EMX5000-12 (which I really love) and the old pair of EV1512's I sold my church a few years back. (pretty decent speakers with 1-15" and a horn) I got a lot of compliments including from my guitar player/vocalist friend who has been performing a long time (he's a few years older) and has seen me perform before. He said that he never heard me so good and "what a professional sound". So I thought I'd share some of my thoughts.

I used my Collings with that "terrible UST thingy" and it sounded great as usual. Wish I could hear that thing some day with a "real" pick-up system.

He said my vocals were killer clear and asked me if those were my mics. (I could have grabbed some mics from the church upstairs). I had a Senn 835 for my friend but he was talking about the sound from my Shure Beta 87A. I was really pleased to hear that the extra money for that mic was noticeable and I thought that needed to be mentioned here.

I took one speaker off the stand and lowered it and moved it back so I could hear better. I could have grabbed a monitor from upstairs but I was only playing 3 songs. I couldn't hear as well as I thought I was going to nor as well as I wanted to.

So, my conclusions: I think I will put up with my Collings for a little while longer even with the dreaded UST.
As I've said before, I think that Beta 87A is a great mic. I think my vocals need all the help they can get and they are obviously getting it with this mic.

What does all of this have to do with this thread? I want to HEAR myself and I love the idea of hearing what the audience is hearing. I am sold on the fact that I really need to give one of these "line-array" types a shot at least. I will get a small mixer no matter what (definitely with phantom power for my 87A). If this doesn't work then I'll go back to the 1 or 2 speakers on a stick and a monitor but I have to give it a try.

[DrDavid]

Originally Posted by BoB/335

Gave my wife a Surprise Birthday Party last night. (I can't do no wrong at least for today anyway) I played 3 songs accompanied by my friend on Congas. (Boy can he play those things) I used my EMX5000-12 (which I really love) and the old pair of EV1512's I sold my church a few years back. (pretty decent speakers with 1-15" and a horn) I got a lot of compliments including from my guitar player/vocalist friend who has been performing a long time (he's a few years older) and has seen me perform before. He said that he never heard me so good and "what a professional sound". So I thought I'd share some of my thoughts.

I used my Collings with that "terrible UST thingy" and it sounded great as usual. Wish I could hear that thing some day with a "real" pick-up system.

He said my vocals were killer clear and asked me if those were my mics. (I could have grabbed some mics from the church upstairs). I had a Senn 835 for my friend but he was talking about the sound from my Shure Beta 87A. I was really pleased to hear that the extra money for that mic was noticeable and I thought that needed to be mentioned here.

I took one speaker off the stand and lowered it and moved it back so I could hear better. I could have grabbed a monitor from upstairs but I was only playing 3 songs. I couldn't hear as well as I thought I was going to nor as well as I wanted to.

So, my conclusions: I think I will put up with my Collings for a little while longer even with the dreaded UST.
As I've said before, I think that Beta 87A is a great mic. I think my vocals need all the help they can get and they are obviously getting it with this mic.

What does all of this have to do with this thread? I want to HEAR myself and I love the idea of hearing what the audience is hearing. I am sold on the fact that I really need to give one of these "line-array" types a shot at least. I will get a small mixer no matter what (definitely with phantom power for my 87A). If this doesn't work then I'll go back to the 1 or 2 speakers on a stick and a monitor but I have to give it a try.

Great account, Bob. Thanks for that.

Sounds like the birthday party was a lot of fun, and a big success.

I am with you on the "hearing oneself" issue. Will continue to follow your decision-making process in that regard.

Have you looked any further into those JBL CBTs?

[BoB/335]

Reading through this brochure http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/suppor...e=3&docid=1389
it states the applications for this speaker arragement down at the end. As interesting as this seems and at a decent price, it would appear that this is meant for a different application.

I'm leaning towards the Compact as I am concerned about the volume behind the performer issue with the SoloAmp.

[DrDavid]

Originally Posted by BoB/335

Reading through this brochure http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/suppor...e=3&docid=1389
it states the applications for this speaker arragement down at the end. As interesting as this seems and at a decent price, it would appear that this is meant for a different application.

Yes, you're probably right about that.

But the CBT-70J, mounted on a speaker stand, and fed by an amp and small mixer, sure looks like it might have some potential. Especially as another alternative to the EV/QSC kinds of set-ups.

[knuckle]

I tried both the bose L1 compact and the soloamp. I almost pulled the trigger on the L2 model but my wife would have killed me. I ended up having considerably more money than I thought I would since a few days ago, but I do have some things to pay. I figure with a mixer the bose L2 would have probably blown my head off.

Bose L1 compact through a mic with no mixer on the tricone. Did not seem that loud and seemed very tinny. Rumbly bass and pingy treble. I sounded worlds better than the soloamp though. I just couldn't get a decent sound out of the soloamp. Though I was probably using cheap mics. Actually it was a SM58, or 57, the smaller of the two, whichever that is.

The bose definitely was more lively than the soloamp. As far as the QSC, I figured "what's pretty much the best speaker, the loudest and quality wise I could get for < 1000. I chose the setup that I did because I think the bose and SA were just not loud enough. Mind you I'm going through a mic and I had no mixer so who knows.

But I figured if I got 2 1000W powered QSC speakers that should be loud enough? I was going to get 2 of them, but that's approaching Bose L2 land so again I would have been in the same boat as far as what I wanted to spend.

Keep in mind also, I've never done a show. If I do, they'll probably be 20 people there. I don't know many people that like the style of music I play, as far as listeners. I have some outdoor things, small that I'm doing in the summer time for free. I just can't stand being underpowered.