What pre amp/di box for k&k mini

[spyrotheleo]

From everything I have read about the k&k minis is that they need a pre amp or a di box to sound their best. So I want to be proactive and purchase one before my guitar gets here on Tuesday. I know a lot of people recommend the k&k pre amps, but what other options are out there? Also, if I am using a tuner or a compressor, do I put that after the pre amp. Thanks!

Justin

[pieterh]

A preamp is nice, not essential with the Pure but it will make the overall response better, no doubt about it.

A DI will simply balance the signal and optimise impedance for running to a mixing desk or balanced input on an amp. Some may have additional features like pad (signal level cut) and/or low cut. Others, like Radial's Pz-DI will in addition offer polarity reverse, variable low cut and load matching (three different impedance levels to match different kinds of pickups). They aren't cheap but are invaluable on a professional stage but for you a dedicated guitar preamp with a built in direct output is the way to go.

My gear includes Radial Pz-pre which has a piezo buffer option on both channels allowing me to optimise the load for a passive pickup like the Pure. Other features include boost function (for solos for example), good eq, low cut, notch filter (feedback killer or an additional eq for the out front sound) and more. There is a mute button which kills the outputs but leaves the tuner output active so you can tune quietly. If you are using a preamp without this feature then put the tuner first so it has a clean signal to work with and can mute the sound out while you are tuning. The Pz-deluxe has most of these features but with one input only.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by spyrotheleo

From everything I have read about the k&k minis is that they need a pre amp or a di box to sound their best.

Hi Justin…

They do sound better to me with a preamp, enough better that when we are running sound and someone shows up with a K&K Pure Mini and no preamp, we loan them one. I don't use effects (or compression etc) but many preamps has an effects loop so you can run them through the loop instead of before/after the preamp.

There is a long list of preamps which work well with the Pure Mini. They range from $30 to $2500 each…

• Baggs ParaDI
• Baggs Venue
• Baggs Belt Pack preamp
• Fishman Platinum
• EDB-II
• Radial PZ Tonebone
• Behringer ADI21
• K&K's preamps (in my opinion over priced and under featured with no better sound)
• UltraSound UltraDI Max (2 separate ins/outs)
• Fire Eye - RedEye
• quite a few others…

It boils down to the list of features you are going to want/need, and how much tweakablity it takes to make you happy.

Here's my minimum list of what I want and expect…

• XLR out for connecting to PA systems, and ¼" out for connecting to amps. These need to be available simultaneously…
• Ground lift
• Separate Gain (input volume control) and Master (output volume control)
• Tone control over every frequency spectrum (the RedEye doesn't)
• Phase reverse (not every preamp has this)

So while there is no simple answer to your inquiry, there are a lot of us who are very happy with our preamps in combination with a K&K, regardless of what they are.

[rockabilly69]

Dtar Solstice pre/EQ, or the Empress ParaEQ, are the most effective boxes I've used in getting a good tone out of the K&K. They have overlapping mid bands that can remove both the honk and the mud so to say. As a matter of fact these two boxes work GREAT with every pickup I've ever used (which is most every one mentioned on this forum!)

[spyrotheleo]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Justin…

They do sound better to me with a preamp, enough better that when we are running sound and someone shows up with a K&K Pure Mini and no preamp, we loan them one. I don't use effects (or compression etc) but many preamps has an effects loop so you can run them through the loop instead of before/after the preamp.

There is a long list of preamps which work well with the Pure Mini. They range from $30 to $2500 each…

• Baggs ParaDI
• Baggs Venue
• Baggs Belt Pack preamp
• Fishman Platinum
• EDB-II
• Radial PZ Tonebone
• Behringer ADI21
• K&K's preamps (in my opinion over priced and under featured with no better sound)
• UltraSound UltraDI Max (2 separate ins/outs)
• Fire Eye - RedEye
• quite a few others…

It boils down to the list of features you are going to want/need, and how much tweakablity it takes to make you happy.

Here's my minimum list of what I want and expect…

• XLR out for connecting to PA systems, and ¼" out for connecting to amps. These need to be available simultaneously…
• Ground lift
• Separate Gain (input volume control) and Master (output volume control)
• Tone control over every frequency spectrum (the RedEye doesn't)
• Phase reverse (not every preamp has this)

So while there is no simple answer to your inquiry, there are a lot of us who are very happy with our preamps in combination with a K&K, regardless of what they are.

I guess I am just looking for options that are around $200 or so. I have mainly been playing electric guitar the last few years, so I am totally new to this while acoustic thing. My last acoustic I had a few years ago was a hd-28 with the aura system, but I rarely plugged it in since they always needed me to play electric at church. What about running a para/eq into an orchid di box? Would that get the job done?

[Gypsyblue]

For $200 you can get a new Red Eye.

Great tone. Not a lot of controls but everything I need.

Has a low impedance out so I can plug directly into a PA board - into a mic channel, with all kinds of tone controls.

The Red Eye has a nice effects loop and I can use the 1/4" output of the effects loop to plug into a regular guitar amp's 1/4" input if I need to.

The treble control was designed to deal with the scratchy sound of a bow on an electric violin. Works great with guitars with K&K Minis too.

The big red button is a boost which can be preset for solos. Not a lot of boost but plenty for raising your volume some when it's time to solo.

[Br1ck]

+1 for Red Eye. Simple quality, and foolproof.

[Ed-in-Ohio]

Really good list so far.

I'll add the Fishman Aura Spectrum DI. One very pleasant surprise for me about this unit is how great it is as a straight preamp (with the image blend at 0) when used with my K&K equipped guitars. IMO, it is awesome (though expensive) when used as a straight preamp.

Controversially, I also think it can add some nice depth and fullness when the right image is judiciously blended in with the K&K. (Note: many here will disagree with me on this...but it has been my experience).

Of course, YMMV.

[akafloyd]

Originally Posted by spyrotheleo

I guess I am just looking for options that are around $200 or so. I have mainly been playing electric guitar the last few years, so I am totally new to this while acoustic thing. My last acoustic I had a few years ago was a hd-28 with the aura system, but I rarely plugged it in since they always needed me to play electric at church. What about running a para/eq into an orchid di box? Would that get the job done?

With the PARADI you won't need the orchid. The Red-Eye is great if you have a sound tech to dial in the eq. If you need eq at your finger tips or feet then something like the Radial pz-deluxe or LR Baggs venue or PARADI is fine. They're all good units but they each have their own feature set and they all are missing one thing or another.

(Edit). Sorry, I read para/eq as ParaDI. If you already have a good eq pedal that you like, going from that to a DI box is perfectly fine. Lots of ways to skin this cat...

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by spyrotheleo

From everything I have read about the k&k minis is that they need a pre amp or a di box to sound their best. So I want to be proactive and purchase one before my guitar gets here on Tuesday. I know a lot of people recommend the k&k pre amps, but what other options are out there? Also, if I am using a tuner or a compressor, do I put that after the pre amp. Thanks!

Justin

What you really *need* is at least a 1M input impedance, with a relatively short cable between your guitar and the DA/Preamp/Amp/etc. 10 feet, not 50. Some people swear it has to be exactly 1M, that has not been my experience. You can hear the effect of impedance in the post a did a few weeks ago:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=389063

Beyond that, it's a question of what features you want, and perhaps what quality you want - both of construction and sound quality. Also consider form factor. Do you want a stomp-box, or a rack mount? Something that slips in your gig bag, or can you handle a big heavy rack?. Or would you rather have an acoustic amp that acts as a preamp/DI? A "preamp" these days tends to be a central control panel, routing your signal to amps, PA, effects, adding EQ, and so on. You can be just fine with a $29 DI into a mixer with EQ, or you can opt for simple with something like the Red-Eye, or you can go all out with something like the rack-mounted Pendulum SPS-1 - just depends on the features you need. The new kid on the block is Grace's Felix, which is pretty much anything and everything anyone could need at a fraction of the SPS-1's price, so that's another high end option.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by spyrotheleo

…What about running a para/eq into an orchid di box? Would that get the job done?

[size=2]Hi Justin…

If your needs are simple, your gear can be simple.

Assessing your usage is more important than just guessing at gear. Unless you know where you will be playing it, why not start out with just the K&K and a passive direct box, and go from there?

If you think you need a Parametric EQ and already own it, it might be fun to set it up and try it. Personally I think that might be overkill. I love my current systems because I can walk onto the stage and in 10 minutes I'm set up and have pulled a sound check.

I've always suggested people start with a simple passive Direct Box and see if it's good enough with their K&K Pure mini. That's a $30 option unless you already own the passive Direct Box, then it's free.

And if you decide you want/need more options, then there are a lot of preamp options which cost both less and more than $30 which are still produce good results.

It depends more on your usage than just simply feeling the need for a preamp. Your playing needs may vary greatly from mine - in fact probably will.

I often end up playing my acoustic in situations which normally require me to plug into an acoustic amp (for stage monitor) and feed the PA the same signal, while leaving my acoustic amp free to be EQed and setup and changed on the fly without affecting the house (PA).

I also play venues who have little or no knowledge of PA systems, and don't offer very much help, so I need to go in with a few more gadgets in my bag.

Others just play at church and need a Direct Box to interface with a church system, and the sound techs even provide the Direct Box.

Assessing your usage is more important than just guessing at gear. Unless you know where you will be playing it, why not start out with just the K&K and a passive direct box, and go from there?

[dweezil]

How about an Effectrode PC-2A and use its gain boost feature. Works for me!

[spyrotheleo]

Thanks for all of the replies! The red eye pedal so far is the most appealing! When my martin d-18 with the k&k minis get here, I will plug it in and see how it sounds without a pre amp and then go from there. Other than using my guitar at church, I really won't be plugging it in anywhere else or going through an acoustic amp.

[Br1ck]

You will plug your guitar in and it will sound good. It can sound much better.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by spyrotheleo

Thanks for all of the replies! The red eye pedal so far is the most appealing! When my martin d-18 with the k&k minis get here, I will plug it in and see how it sounds without a pre amp and then go from there. Other than using my guitar at church, I really won't be plugging it in anywhere else or going through an acoustic amp.

Hi spyrotheleo…

Have fun playing with your new rig.

My experience is if the venue is average and pretty normal, and the PA of sufficient quality, then a RedEye does fine.

If you need to adjust bass or low mid…not so much…