The key change in "Here there and Everywhere"

[Bronsky]

Please educate me about what's happening in that Beatles song.
The verses seem to be in the Key of G, and the chorus in Cm?

I really like the way that transition sounds, and would like to incorporate more tricks like this into my own songwriting. But first I need to understand what exactly is going on and how they did it!!

Anybody can tell me what's going on in that song from a music theory point of view?

[Wyllys]

Verse in G, bridge in Bflat. Here's a half-way decent chart. I prefer some "softer" chords like the occasional 6th. Voicings/inversions in this are best chosen by listening to the movement of the bass line in the recording.

https://www.songsterr.com/a/wsa/beat...e-chords-s2520

[stanron]

Here there and everywhere

I used the chord sequence shown here

https://www.e-chords.com/chords/the-...and-everywhere

The verse is interesting. It starts with a chord sequence made of serial diatonic seconds. In G,

G, Am, Bm and C

On the words "wave of her hand" you get what might be the first modulation, possibly to Em, which it hits on the word "deny". F#m7 to B7 would be a kind of ii7 to V7 of Em. These start a set of serial fourth interval chord changes to the start of the second verse back in G.

The chord F7 at the start of the chorus indicates a modulation to Bb as F7 is the V7 of Bb. However Bb is the relative major of Gm and the use of the chord D7 in the second line leads to what could be called a modulation to Gm as a V7 to i. The second D7 leads back to G in the standard V7 to I perfect cadence.

Other views may vary.

[Wyllys]

On "wave of her hand" the chord is an F#m11 rather than the plain m7, the 11 being the "sus" tone of the melody.

2 x 2 2 0 x "wave of her"

x 2 1 2 0 x "hand"

[JonPR]

There's a clever interplay between relative and parallel major and minor going on (the Beatles liked that game).

G-Am7-Bm7-C = I-ii-iii-IV in G major
F#m7-B7 = secondary ii-V into relative minor (Em)
Em-Am-D = vi-ii-V back to G major.

Second time, F7 (V of Bb) leads into the bridge:
Bb-Gm-Cm - I-vi-ii in Bb major
D7-Gm = V-i in G minor: relative minor of Bb major and parallel minor of G major.
Cm-D7 = iv-V in G minor, but the D7 acts as a pivot back to the G major of the verse. (D7 is dominant of both G major and G minor).

The intro sneaks the Bb in too, between Bm and Am7, where a jazz musician might say it's acting as bII of Am, tritone sib of E7 (E7 would fit neatly between Bm and Am7). However, the melody doesn't support that interpretation. There is no 7th of Bb (Ab) and there's a passing Eb. (For Bb7 to be a proper jazz bII, it would need to be Bb7 and have an E as #11. Those fools Lennon and McCartney obviously had NO IDEA what they were doing. No wonder they never made it... )

An interesting comparison tune - going from G major to Bb and working back via G minor and D7 to G - is Poco's "Rose of Cimarron" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JF91ul0ZR64 (They're tuned down a half-step, btw, so it sounds as F# and A.)

[stanron]

The combined effect of playing an F#m7 chord and singing a B note on top is F#m11 but if you, or someone else, is singing or playing the B note then F#m7 is all the chord anyone needs to play for accompaniment. One of our versions only has F#m. I'd not be offended by someone playing F#m11 but would play F#m7 myself. If I were doing a solo guitar version I would play the melody note plus just a part of the chord, but I don't do chord melody. I'm more bass note plus melody.

[JonPR]

They sing a passing C natural over the F#m7 too, implying the "correct" ii of Em, F#m7b5. But the chord they play is F#m7. The C was just an intuitive diatonic note - belonging to the key, not the chord.
That's why Wyllys' shape for the chord is good, because it omits the 5th, avoiding potential dissonance beween a C# and the vocal C.

(Alan Pollack - http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/...AWP/htae.shtml - is convinced the chord actually is F#m7b5, but I've listened hard and can't detect a C natural in the guitar, while a C# does seem to be present. It is hard to make it out behind the vocal though.)

[amyFB]

Originally Posted by JonPR

There's a clever interplay between relative and parallel major and minor going on (the Beatles liked that game).

G-Am7-Bm7-C = I-ii-iii-IV in G major
F#m7-B7 = secondary ii-V into relative minor (Em)
Em-Am-D = vi-ii-V back to G major.

Second time, F7 (V of Bb) leads into the bridge:
Bb-Gm-Cm - I-vi-ii in Bb major
D7-Gm = V-i in G minor: relative minor of Bb major and parallel minor of G major.
Cm-D7 = iv-V in G minor, but the D7 acts as a pivot back to the G major of the verse. (D7 is dominant of both G major and G minor).

The intro sneaks the Bb in too, between Bm and Am7, where a jazz musician might say it's acting as bII of Am, tritone sib of E7 (E7 would fit neatly between Bm and Am7). However, the melody doesn't support that interpretation. There is no 7th of Bb (Ab) and there's a passing Eb. (For Bb7 to be a proper jazz bII, it would need to be Bb7 and have an E as #11. Those fools Lennon and McCartney obviously had NO IDEA what they were doing. No wonder they never made it... )

An interesting comparison tune - going from G major to Bb and working back via G minor and D7 to G - is Poco's "Rose of Cimarron" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JF91ul0ZR64 (They're tuned down a half-step, btw, so it sounds as F# and A.)

This is full of interesting information that I want to spend more time studying.
Thanks!

[Wyllys]

As often happens, labeling things is more complcated than just going for the sound. If one places equal emphasis and time learning notation/chord spelling and ear/interval training you're WAY ahead.

Taken to the extreme, analyzing music/harmony is like making a circle out of short dashes. The shorter the dashes (down to an infinte number of single points) the closer you come to a perfect circle...but you never really get there although your approximation will be very close.

The SOUND is a perfect circle, the analysis and theoretical constructs always an approximation and a "road map". The trick is to balance things such that the information provided points to "the circle" without being so cumbersome as to be impractical. Once you reach that point, further academic parsing results in "paralysis by analysis".

But this song has such a great melody that it can withstand several levels of statement, yet the recorded performance is a real "carrot on the stick" to coax all of us to examine the nuances such as the F#m11.

I've learned a lot about extensions reading and posting hear...or at least clarified my ear-based understanding. Where before I would have considered the "B" note in the F#m11 some sort of sus tone, I now understand a better way to state and communicate it. Thanks to Jon and Stanron among others who have goaded this old goat into further study.

I still refer to the Joel Mabus PDF I linked previously regarding chord namng/spelling protocol.

Thanks to all for your contributions and the OP for bringing this tune up for study.

[Wyllys]

Originally Posted by JonPR

That's why Wyllys' shape for the chord is good, because it omits the 5th, avoiding potential dissonance beween a C# and the vocal C.

And here I thought it just sounded right...

[Bronsky]

Originally Posted by JonPR

the D7 acts as a pivot back to the G major of the verse. (D7 is dominant of both G major and G minor).

Yes, I figured that the D7 played such a role because it seems to "sound good" in both scales.
Guess I gotta learn about dominant chords if I wanna be able to pull that sort of trick...

Originally Posted by Willys

As often happens, labeling things is more complcated than just going for the sound.

Absolutely, but even though I've known how to play that song for a while, this kind of sofistication hasn't found it's way into my songwriting yet.
I guess I need to understand that stuff before I can appropriate it...
If I just go with what sounds good to me, I end up with the I - IV - IV progression (and vi for the bridge!!) 90% of the time...

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Wyllys

And here I thought it just sounded right...

Well yes, that's just why it sounds good. I mean, including the B they sing, as well as omitting the C# they don't.

Even though they played the C# themselves...

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Bronsky

Yes, I figured that the D7 played such a role because it seems to "sound good" in both scales.
Guess I gotta learn about dominant chords if I wanna be able to pull that sort of trick...

It's a "trick" that's been a standard part of music theory since classical times, if not before. Minor keys normally have a major V chord. So the Beatles would simply have copied it from songs they knew, probably not thinking there was anything odd about it.
They certainly didn't need to "learn about dominant chords" - I mean, other than picking them up from copying other people's songs. They wouldn't have known or cared what "dominant" meant.

Originally Posted by Bronsky

Absolutely, but even though I've known how to play that song for a while, this kind of sofistication hasn't found it's way into my songwriting yet.
I guess I need to understand that stuff before I can appropriate it...
If I just go with what sounds good to me, I end up with the I - IV - IV progression (and vi for the bridge!!) 90% of the time...

You too could be Lennon or McCartney if you'd learned 100s of pop standards of all eras (20s-50s), had good enough ears to copy them all accurately, and had the same insane level of self-confidence they had (believing they could do anything, unaware of any rules to say they couldn't).

You don't need to "understand" in the theoretical sense, only in the aural sense. I.e.if it sounds good, steal it and use it. The reason your own songwriting is limited is not because you don't know enough theory. It's because you haven't internalized enough of the variety that exists in all the music out there. You're playing safe by working with what you know (the chords and changes you know, from the limited number of styles of other songs you know)

[Bronsky]

Originally Posted by JonPR

You too could be Lennon or McCartney if you'd learned 100s of pop standards of all eras (20s-50s), had good enough ears to copy them all accurately, and had the same insane level of self-confidence they had

Best encouragement I ever received!
Thank you!

[Wyllys]

Originally Posted by Bronsky

...even though I've known how to play that song for a while, this kind of sofistication hasn't found it's way into my songwriting yet.
I guess I need to understand that stuff before I can appropriate it...
If I just go with what sounds good to me, I end up with the I - IV - IV progression (and vi for the bridge!!) 90% of the time...

Patience, Grasshopper. When you've internalized several dozen of such examples and really dug into them, it'll start to show up in your personal approach. When you have 100...

One thing at a time, not all things at once.