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  #61  
Old 05-09-2017, 09:29 AM
JoeCharter JoeCharter is offline
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Originally Posted by Howard Klepper View Post
I'm confused by this, since other Olson fans here (especially CPABolting) have sworn that Jim voices every guitar individually. Can you explain what Drew meant by saying Olson doesn't do voicing?
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Originally Posted by ExpoTom View Post
Sure, though this is actually something Jim himself told me which was then later confirmed by others, and not necessarily Drew. (See also Jim's recent video interview) This is my personal understanding that I relate here.

The context is that I asked Jim for a specific variation of his tone to match one his prior builds and he said he could not do it because there was nothing special done with that prior build. (I was expecting that this build had certain voicing applied because the tone was quite different than other cedar/RW SJs)

As I learned, Jim tries to build his guitars as consistently as possible. He uses the same specs. Bracing patterns are very uniform. After applying the braces, there is cleanup work and shaping--that clean up creates very minimal variation from guitar to guitar. The precise building yields an Olson-esque tone. That tone is a known quantity with slight EQ variations across his guitars. For the most part, the variations are not the result of something he strove to build. (though perhaps in some cases it could be, but even his video interview confirms his general approach)

Jim attributes tonal variations primarily to each piece of wood being unique. As far as I know, he has not individually tapped or used a tuning technique in the same way that some other builders do. (e.g., a Somogyi apprentice, for whom voicing is very serious business)

That's not to say it's a factory approach, but Jim isn't necessarily voicing toward some ideal. Using Jim's words, "Over the years I have learned that ever player has there own ideas about what is their "favorite". To me they all exhibit the "Olson sound" and only a bit of EQ difference between guitars. I can't even tell you one is "better" than other."

(Not trying to start a firestorm as I know other builders are like this too, including Del Langejans, who built my personal #1 guitar.)

Sorry about any confusion!
I own three guitars by Jim and must have hundreds of pages of correspondence with him. Most of it is casual BS as it never occurred to me to inquire about Jim's building methods. It's not really any of my business and I wouldn't understand a tenth of it anyway.

What matters to me is that Jim builds fine guitars that I'm very happy to play and collect.

If I'm reading this thread correctly, the OP essentially used words to describe the sound of a particular guitar that he wanted Jim to replicate (while Jim will probably tell you that he was aiming more or less for the same sound on every guitar) -- a recipe for disaster IMHO.

So in order to replicate the sound of that one guitar, the OP turned to another luthier who will use the Olson voicing (even though Jim himself asserted that he tried to voice them all the same) combined with techniques from Dana Bourgeois (not sure how this will get the OP closer to his end goal).

I'm sure this guitar will be fantastic and it looks great so far -- but I also think the expectations at the start were a bit unrealistic.
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  #62  
Old 05-09-2017, 10:13 AM
SiliconValleySJ SiliconValleySJ is offline
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Originally Posted by JoeCharter View Post
If I'm reading this thread correctly, the OP essentially used words to describe the sound of a particular guitar that he wanted Jim to replicate (while Jim will probably tell you that he was aiming more or less for the same sound on every guitar) -- a recipe for disaster IMHO.

So in order to replicate the sound of that one guitar, the OP turned to another luthier who will use the Olson voicing (even though Jim himself asserted that he tried to voice them all the same) combined with techniques from Dana Bourgeois (not sure how this will get the OP closer to his end goal).

I'm sure this guitar will be fantastic and it looks great so far -- but I also think the expectations at the start were a bit unrealistic.
Mau, you hit it right on the nose. I actually wanted Jim to build it, but for the reasons elaborated ended up asking Drew. (It wasn't just voicing--it was also cost as Jim only wanted to build BRW this year in his remaining slots--but the voicing was a big factor)

In my mind, the defining characteristic I want is a delayed bloom or swell. The expectations are indeed very high for this one. I admit they are not too realistic, and I was pretty upfront with Drew. He embraced it as very interesting challenge. If Drew is able to get close to what we were trying to build, I think I'm going to be one very happy camper.

I can't comment at length at how Drew is voicing this one as I'm trusting him. It looks very Olson-ish in its bracing, and doesn't deviate significantly. I'm sure Drew has done some tapping on bracing heights and adjusted, but we (he) spent a fair amount of time choosing the right sort of top and back for it too. (*Lots* of tapping) Drew felt strongly that the pieces of wood, maximized for their potential, would be the best route to achieve what I asked for.
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  #63  
Old 05-09-2017, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeCharter View Post
it never occurred to me to inquire about Jim's building methods. It's not really any of my business and I wouldn't understand a tenth of it anyway.
I would like to recommend that this be pinned at the top of the Custom Forum for all new luthier clients to see. It sure would prevent a lot of disappointed luthier clients.

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  #64  
Old 05-09-2017, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ExpoTom View Post
Mau, you hit it right on the nose. I actually wanted Jim to build it, but for the reasons elaborated ended up asking Drew. (It wasn't just voicing--it was also cost as Jim only wanted to build BRW this year in his remaining slots--but the voicing was a big factor)

In my mind, the defining characteristic I want is a delayed bloom or swell. The expectations are indeed very high for this one. I admit they are not too realistic, and I was pretty upfront with Drew. He embraced it as very interesting challenge. If Drew is able to get close to what we were trying to build, I think I'm going to be one very happy camper.

I can't comment at length at how Drew is voicing this one as I'm trusting him. It looks very Olson-ish in its bracing, and doesn't deviate significantly. I'm sure Drew has done some tapping on bracing heights and adjusted, but we (he) spent a fair amount of time choosing the right sort of top and back for it too. (*Lots* of tapping) Drew felt strongly that the pieces of wood, maximized for their potential, would be the best route to achieve what I asked for.
The thing with sound is that it's so difficult to describe -- especially when we're talking about minor differences.

Since Jim mentioned he did nothing special on that guitar, there's only a few conclusions that we could entertain:

* That guitar with the "delayed bloom" was very special (e.g. "magic" tonewoods)
* That guitar wasn't that special but perhaps it had different strings or someone had tinkered with it
* That guitar wasn't that special but you have a very fine ear and are very particular about what you want (nothing wrong with that as long as you know yourself well enough)

I think the challenge is that nobody really knows what you meant by "delayed bloom" or how it was achieved in the first place since the difference wasn't even intentional.

So you're basically asking a builder to go after the sound of a guitar that he has never heard and aim for a characteristic that even the original builder couldn't pinpoint (or guarantee to replicate)...

In any case, I simply posted to wish you a happy ending to your current build and look forward to seeing the final photos. It would be safest for you to expect a great guitar rather than a guitar that sounds exactly like your memories of another guitar.
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  #65  
Old 05-09-2017, 05:35 PM
SiliconValleySJ SiliconValleySJ is offline
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Originally Posted by JoeCharter View Post
Since Jim mentioned he did nothing special on that guitar, there's only a few conclusions that we could entertain:

* That guitar with the "delayed bloom" was very special (e.g. "magic" tonewoods)
* That guitar wasn't that special but perhaps it had different strings or someone had tinkered with it
* That guitar wasn't that special but you have a very fine ear and are very particular about what you want (nothing wrong with that as long as you know yourself well enough)
Agree with you here too. It was arguably #1--Mike Joyce did feel that this one was really good--and #3 certainly is true. That's why I've never commissioned in the past. Luthiers who know me well enough have cautioned me against it because they believe #3 is true too.

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Originally Posted by JoeCharter View Post
In any case, I simply posted to wish you a happy ending to your current build and look forward to seeing the final photos. It would be safest for you to expect a great guitar rather than a guitar that sounds exactly like your memories of another guitar.
Appreciate your wishes here! I know I'm rolling the dice, but I must admit, it's been a lot of fun having a hand in the design process too.
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  #66  
Old 05-09-2017, 11:50 PM
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It would be much less of a gamble if you wanted a Heinonen. I have no doubt you're going to love the guitar Drew is building for you.
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  #67  
Old 05-11-2017, 12:21 AM
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It would be much less of a gamble if you wanted a Heinonen. I have no doubt you're going to love the guitar Drew is building for you.
I believe so as well. What I love about Drew is that he likes building a variety of tonal profiles--he builds an Olson SJ, his own OM, and then something in between. I'm feeling pretty good that he'll be able to hit it.
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  #68  
Old 05-20-2017, 11:41 AM
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i've been following this closely. i'm interested in Drew's guitars. you'll need to give us a full review when you get it. when will that be ( around)?
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  #69  
Old 05-20-2017, 12:55 PM
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i've been following this closely. i'm interested in Drew's guitars. you'll need to give us a full review when you get it. when will that be ( around)?
In less than a month I think! Original target date was late May-June depending on the speed of the current batch. He was working on neck joint last week, so that means it's almost to spray booth if not there already.

(One of the sister guitars in the batch already had 2 coats of finish as of 2 days ago so perhaps mine is already there too...)

Will definitely do a full review with gratuitous pictures. I'm seeing if I can convince Stevie Coyle to play it during one of his Friday webcasts too.
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  #70  
Old 05-22-2017, 11:43 AM
SiliconValleySJ SiliconValleySJ is offline
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Drew thinks he's on track to finish this week or next. Just got another batch of photos.

Here it is with all of the coats of finish on it:



Drew then did his sand down of the body post finish to level using 1200 grit:



After this he needs the buff out the glossy shine again and on to final assembly!
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Last edited by SiliconValleySJ; 07-01-2017 at 12:48 AM.
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  #71  
Old 05-22-2017, 05:07 PM
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Very beautiful, you must be getting pretty excited!
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  #72  
Old 05-22-2017, 11:26 PM
SiliconValleySJ SiliconValleySJ is offline
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Very beautiful, you must be getting pretty excited!
Thanks Tom, very excited. I am thrilled it's almost done, but now that it's almost done, I do feel a bit sad. I guess that's why some people here commission more than one...!
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  #73  
Old 05-23-2017, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by ExpoTom View Post
Thanks Tom, very excited. I am thrilled it's almost done, but now that it's almost done, I do feel a bit sad. I guess that's why some people here commission more than one...!
Ha, it can get to be a problem (as he looks around the room surveying multiple guitar cases hahaha), but when you get it, my diagnosis is that you will be just fine!
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  #74  
Old 05-23-2017, 09:07 AM
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Classic and classy, it'll be fun to hear your initial impressions as well as your thoughts after 6 months and a year as the guitar breaks in. And I know what you mean about it being fun to have a hand in the design process. I think that's one reason some of us went this way instead of spending time on racks of gear to find "the one." Enjoy!!
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  #75  
Old 05-28-2017, 02:03 AM
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Originally Posted by ExpoTom View Post
I believe so as well. What I love about Drew is that he likes building a variety of tonal profiles--he builds an Olson SJ, his own OM, and then something in between. I'm feeling pretty good that he'll be able to hit it.
At the risk of being too pedantic about this...I believe the only person who builds an Olson SJ would be Jim Olson. Others may build a similar design and spec though.

Notwithstanding all of the prior posts, it looks great and I am sure will be a wonderful "Olson-esque", Heinonen SJ guitar.
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Last edited by racman; 05-28-2017 at 02:23 AM.
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