Laminated guitars

[bjewell]

Originally Posted by fazool

The word "ply" is a noun that means a thin layer. Laminate is a verb that means to bond on top of one another.

Part of the confusion is the wording used.

The most popular plywood is home construction wood, where junk wood is layered at 90 degrees to greatly increase strength. Because of the popularity the name "plywood" became synonymous with this low-cost, low-quality home construction wood.

All plywood is laminated.

All laminated wood is made of plys.

The guitar industry does it much differently and deliberately distanced themselves from the word "plywood" and used "laminated wood" instead - strictly as a marketing ploy to avoid confusion.

OK, that said, the words are technically interchangeable.

The question, as discussed already, is "how the plys are laminated together":

Are they laminated in parallal or perpendicular?
Are they two layers (double top) or three (more common plywood)
Is the center of a 3-ply laminate "good" wood or junk filler?
Are the three layers equal thicknesses or is it a thick center with thin (veneer) outer layers?

You can ply your troth and you can purchase a laminated table. :- )

[amyFB]

Here is a photo of the end of a laminated beam just installed in my basement.

Just for an extreme view of one potential use of laminates when considering the strength characteristics of the end item.



(This beam on a 12' span , with two column jacks , took out the 3/16" slant that had developed in the kitchen above. (That from a combo of stone counter and roof work performed on inadequate beam/rafter foundation))



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[fazool]

Originally Posted by Rmz76

Reading your reply, I would envision all layered wood to be dozens of thin layers......

Yes, , another "question" for my list above:

how many layers are there? 3 or 5 or 12?

[dgt178]

@MrScott...

..."It's such a pity that laminate construction is still looked down upon..."

---I don't think it's looked down upon.....as long as it's priced accordingly.....

[YamaYairi]

Some time ago I found some info on the internet about Yairi's use of laminate wood for back and sides, saying he did this for increased strength and stability and formulated his laminates out of better woods, but I can't find it.
I will say that I have played guitars with laminate back and sides and high quality solid top that sound as good as all solid wood guitars. I had a Mountain guitar that was a copy of a Guild D55 that sounded identical to the Guild. My Blueridge BG60 sounds to me as good as any of the Gibson J45's I've played, and better than some of them.

[printer2]

I don't see any advantage of going over three layers. Want a container worth?

https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...256219087.html

[devellis]

Originally Posted by fazool

The word "ply" is a noun that means a thin layer. Laminate is a verb that means to bond on top of one another.

Laminate is also a noun (first definition in my dictionary), defined as: a sheet of material made by bonding two or more sheets or layers.

Ply can also be a verb, with one definition given as: join together by twisting, weaving, or molding.


So, usage is pretty much all over the place. Your clarification is still helpful, though.

[Bax Burgess]

A guitar shop owner (pushing 70), luthier of unknown (to me) accomplishment, admirer/owner of old Martins, and perplexed fan/seller of lowerish Indonesian and Chinese laminate topped guitars, told it to me that the Red labelled Gakkis had three layered tops where the mid layer was not at a 90 degree angle to the top layer, but somewhere closer to, if not, 45 degrees. The $100 Savannahs, and others that he sold of similar price, were made with three layers, the interior laminated core of 'mystery meat' as he termed it, similar in look to foam or a very fine particle board. I've gathered a few, choice ones, their depth and sustain surpassing/defying presumptions. I enjoy and admire these cheapies, especially because they defy my questionably learned expectations.

[Von Beerhofen]

My Ibanez Artist describes the back wood as Indian Rosewood, but it doesn't describe how many layers, the inside and outside grain run in different directions and the seam of the square pieces can be seen inside the body. The outside could be veneer, they're two halves perfectly mirrored. No mention of the use of any other woods in the folders.

Ludwig

[Martie]

Just a quick question:

I don't understand why manufacturers use laminated wood. To me, who knows nothing about guitar building whatsoever (and who's favourite guitar is actually all laminated! http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=489441) it just sounds like a bigger job than using one piece of wood - like, cut and shape one piece of wood or cut and shape several and stick 'em together! The former sounds straightforward, the latter like a pain in the ***.

What am I missing?

[Tony Done]

I'm a fan of laminate, and most of my thoughts on the subject have already been discussed. I'll just note that I've been playing for about 55 years, and my all-time favourite for fingerpicking is an old Maton M300, all-laminate. The major downside is that the surface texture looks like damp cardboard.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by dgt178

@MrScott...

..."It's such a pity that laminate construction is still looked down upon..."

---I don't think it's looked down upon.....as long as it's priced accordingly.....

Is $20,000+ priced accordingly enough for one of Greg Smallman's classical guitars with laminate back and sides? That's about the minimum you'll pay for a used model!

[Theleman]

I have a S101 Dreadnaught with Spruce Top and Rosewood back and sides all solid wood, and a Samick Jumbo with Solid Spruce top and laminated Mahogany back and sides.

When played one by one for comparison, the S101 sounds deep, rich and rings out very loud too. The S101 is a great instrument even though it is a low priced budget guitar.

The Samick is quieter, subdued and a bit artificial.

Not fair or accurate comparison of course, because one is Dreadnaught Rose wood back and sides, and the other a Jumbo with Mahogany back and sides. But I wonder if Solid wood and Laminate construction contributes to the tone difference.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Theleman

I have a S101 Dreadnaught with Spruce Top and Rosewood back and sides all solid wood, and a Samick Jumbo with Solid Spruce top and laminated Mahogany back and sides.

When played one by one for comparison, the S101 sounds deep, rich and rings out very loud too. The S101 is a great instrument even though it is a low priced budget guitar.

The Samick is quieter, subdued and a bit artificial.

Not fair or accurate comparison of course, because one is Dreadnaught Rose wood back and sides, and the other a Jumbo with Mahogany back and sides. But I wonder if Solid wood and Laminate construction contributes to the tone difference.

I hear quite a difference between my LL16 (solid) and LJ6 (medium jumbo, b/s laminated); again different styles as you said, but the LJ6 is considerably brighter and more projecting-more of an instant attack to notes as opposed to the 'bloom' of the more restrained LL16. Both are rosewood/Englemann spruce.

[Tony Done]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

Is $20,000+ priced accordingly enough for one of Greg Smallman's classical guitars with laminate back and sides? That's about the minimum you'll pay for a used model!

I was going to mention Greg's guitars. The whole thing is laminate, except for a bit of the lower bout top. IIRC, his price is Oz$40 thousand with a 10 year wait. If you can find one off-the-shelf from a dealer, it is US$60 thousand.