#16
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My take away from that article was that the research didn't suggest opening up to be a myth, but just something that the amount of moisture in the air can have a big impact on. Given the same make and model a person living on the cost in Florida may have an entirely different "opening up" experience than someone living in say Montana.
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Wayne J-45 song of the day archive https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis..._Zmxz51NAwG1UJ My music https://soundcloud.com/waynedeats76 https://www.facebook.com/waynedeatsmusic My guitars Gibson, Martin, Blueridge, Alvarez, Takamine |
#17
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Last edited by dneal; 01-17-2018 at 09:18 PM. Reason: added the umlaut for Raëlians... just because ;) |
#18
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I’m with you on the humidity angle playing the largest role in any perceived change over time. I also suspect that glues need weeks or months to fully cure and vibrate properly, but have no evidence to support my hunch.
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#19
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You could just find the guitars resonant frequency (one of them) and play that through a speaker at the guitar, so it vibrates. Then leave it in that room for a month or so.
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#20
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breaking in or breaking out
There is absolutely nothing scientific about what my ears hear or don't hear. We are all different, and so are our guitars, which about makes it impossible for anything scientific to be done on this subject. What we like about what we hear is and always will be subjective.
For my part, I thought for years that I had never witnessed "opening up", but there were too many people whose opinions I respected for me to be a nay-sayer. Let's say I was happily agnostic, not trusting my hearing memory. I never saw much reason to trust it overly much and I still suspect it. However, my newest has been getting better and better. I am hearing sounds and overtones that I never heard before, good ones. This of course pushes me towards the "yes, they do open up" camp. And it also pushes me to the "you can't trust your ears over time camp", since I have not witnessed this before. So the argument within me still teeters. It may be more like religion - you either believe or you don't. And proofs or lack of proofs are not going to shake your faith.
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The Bard Rocks Fay OM Sinker Redwood/Tiger Myrtle Sexauer L00 Adk/Magnolia For Sale Hatcher Jumbo Bearclaw/"Bacon" Padauk Goodall Jumbo POC/flamed Mahogany Appollonio 12 POC/Myrtle MJ Franks Resonator, all Australian Blackwood Goodman J45 Lutz/fiddleback Mahogany Blackbird "Lucky 13" - carbon fiber '31 National Duolian + many other stringed instruments. |
#21
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What’s really scary is when your best guitar by a wide margin started out tight, no warmth, anemic trebles, little bass response - adjectives used earlier by Wade Hampton to describe his friend’s mandolin - and easily passed up when new by prospective buyers for being a dud.
Last edited by Kerbie; 01-17-2018 at 10:04 PM. Reason: Removed masked profanity |
#22
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My new Yamaha is sounding better, but I think it's me and not the instrument.
I keep it in a hard case with an Oasis when not playing it. Maybe I'll let it dry out just a little.
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______________________________________ Naples, FL 1972 Martin D18 (Kimsified, so there!) Alvarez Yairi PYM70 Yamaha LS-TA with sunburst finish Republic parlor resonator Too many ukeleles |
#23
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I will undermine my own authority: maybe I just never kept a guitar around long enough for The Great Opening Up to happen? I’m sure my wife would agree. |
#24
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I have never tried to explain the fundamentals because I don’t understand them, but I’ve played guitars that were brand new - as in finished the day before and I was the first person to play - and dramatic changes take place in the first 30 minutes. I’ve owned a number of brand new guitars and have experienced significant change in the first couple of months. Wood is a fairly inhomogenous material and its properties not only change over time but I can also imagine under tension. So, no, I don’t think it’s in your head. It’s not the world’s most satisfying answer (I’m an engineer, too), but the guitar is a complicated beast.
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Circa OM-30/34 (Adi/Mad) | 000-12 (Ger/Maple) | OM-28 (Adi/Brz) | OM-18/21 (Adi/Hog) | OM-42 (Adi/Braz) Fairbanks SJ (Adi/Hog) | Schoenberg/Klepper 000-12c (Adi/Hog) | LeGeyt CLM (Swiss/Amzn) | LeGeyt CLM (Carp/Koa) Brondel A-2 (Carp/Mad) |
#25
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The speed of sound within a material (velocity) is determined by the density of its mass and its elasticity. The velocity is a constant regardless of how much force is applied (amplitude) when various properties like temperature, barometric pressure, and (for some materials) humidity are held constant. These variables affect the velocity, especially temperature. Temperature dramatically affects the density/elasticity which changes the velocity which changes the sound. Innumerable scientific experiments have already been performed to verify this Law.
My theory is that when folks think they're hearing a better instrument, what they are really hearing is a nice warm guitar with the right strings and humidity level. Humidity affects the wood (more/less water/air) which changes the velocity which changes the sound. As an ultrasonic specialist for over 35 years I've never seen any evidence to contradict Newton's and Hooke's Laws of motion physics. |
#26
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#27
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I was hesitant to offer my hunches about temperature but your equations seem to be saying what I’m feeling: a cold guitar doesn’t want to vibrate as much as a warm guitar. |
#28
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Gene, this not “scientific” in that I didn’t perform any quantitative measurements, but, for me, the evidence stands as proof.
In 2003, I took delivery of a brand new from the luthier custom guitar. This guitar was a great pleasure and I was delighted with it, save for one curious characteristic - the sixth string was not as loud as its neighbor, the fifth A. I asked a very knowledgeable player who was very familiar with the builder if I needed to be concerned about the lack of volume of the low E string. He said, “ No, don’t worry about it. Those Adirondack tops take time to come in.” Well I didn’t worry, but I sort of kept track. After nearly a year, I realized one day that the sixth string was as loud or louder than the fifth. Now I didn’t measure it. But I distinctly observed that the sixth was weaker when the guitar was new, and that it was louder after 9 or 10 months. Because I was comparing the two side by side strings, I could clearly discern the change in the instrument.
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-Raf |
#29
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Apologies if I'm repeating someone .. but the contents and mass of timber changes with time and the shape of a guitar changes a little with tension and time - how could there not be sonic change?
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#30
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How do you do that?
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SCGC Custom OM Mars spruce/cocobolo |