#1
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Is it a nut problem?
Hello!
I bought a used Ibanez Talman acoustic as a back-up guitar. Nice fit and finish for a fairly cheap instrument. However, getting the thing in tune has been a problem. It goes along okay, tuning by harmonics but but then the octaves (e.g. A string third fret and B string first fret) are not in tune. I fiddle around try to compensate--this string a little flat, this one a little sharp. Certain chords play in tune, others not. But when I capo at the first fret, tuning problems disappear. She tunes up fine, plays nice. I've owned some inexpensive guitars in my time but have never had this experience. Do I need a "zero" fret? Do I need to shave the nut-end of the fret board and move the nut closer? All help appreciated, thank you! Steve |
#2
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How deep are the nut slots? Are they so deep, the entire string is buried in the slot? Also, is the nut plastic? If so, you're probably getting some sticking going on where the nut keeps the string in place and puts it in a bind. In theory, half the string is supposed to be down in the nut slots. More often than not, they end up sitting all the way down in them.
Remedy: file the top of the nut so the strings aren't buried, and use a lubricant in the nut slots. Or, try a Graphtech Tusq nut. They are self-lubricating and typically don't make the strings "stick". Best of luck.
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As my username suggests, huge fan of Yamaha products. Own many acoustic-electric models from 2009-present and a couple electric. Lots of PA too. |
#3
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Quote:
If the nut slots are not cut deep enough, then the string needs to be stretched (just like string bending) and will be sharp. It will be sharper the lower the fretted note. So, if your intonation is good mid-neck and upward, but poorer the closer you go to the nut, it is likely the nut slots have not yet been cut deep enough. It COULD be that the nut is installed in the wrong location. But this is rare. (Possible, yes, but still rare...) To comment on the first reply... It doesn't really matter how tall the nut is, as long as the BOTTOM OF THE SLOTS ARE THE CORRECT HEIGHT, AND THE SLOTS ARE WIDE ENOUGH. It is MOSTLY aesthetic to have nuts either level with the top of the strings, or have about 1/3rd of the string diameter projecting from the top of the nut. Hope this helps.
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---- Ned Milburn NSDCC Master Artisan Dartmouth, Nova Scotia |
#4
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Quote:
Also worth noting, I've seen nuts where the attempt was made to get the right visual and slots were so shallow that the unwound strings wouldn't stay put. Getting a nut right seems to be the last frontier in guitar setup. It's fairly simple geometry, but there are so many myths running rampant that it's hard to cut through the clutter. |
#5
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Quote:
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As my username suggests, huge fan of Yamaha products. Own many acoustic-electric models from 2009-present and a couple electric. Lots of PA too. |
#6
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Whether a nut slot is as deep as the string diameter, or 3x the string diameter, it will pinch if it is too narrow, and it will function properly if it is the correct width. Your point "sometimes strings stick in deep nut slots" has nothing to do with their depth. Rather, those deep nut slots in which strings stick have not been cut wide enough. Not related to their depth. But I think I've repeated that a few times already... ;-)
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---- Ned Milburn NSDCC Master Artisan Dartmouth, Nova Scotia |
#7
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Todd adds this and it's always my suggestion for any newly purchased guitar and certainly one with tuning, intonation or buzzing issues. Get a proper tune up so you don't have to wonder what, if anything, is off.
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#8
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Quote:
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Waterloo WL-S, K & K mini Waterloo WL-S Deluxe, K & K mini Iris OG, 12 fret, slot head, K & K mini Follow The Yellow Brick Road |
#9
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If the nut slots are too wide, can this cause the problem? If the string is actually making contact with the nut a little north of the face of the nut, then the intonation will be wrong when it is open, but be fine when it is capoed. Roger Siminoff talks about this in his book and shows a picture of a nut that has had this done intentionally.
Ed |
#10
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Bingo. The string should stop at the face of the nut, not somewhere on the nut itself. If the slot is too wide and/or not angled on the bottom, the string can vibrate in the nut, lengthening the distance from the nut to the first fret. The symptom is sharp intonation when fretting the first fret.
Strings too high at the nut is the other likely possibility. Check the nut height by gently pressing the string onto the second fret (press between the second and third frets), and look for minimal clearance over the first fret. |
#11
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Thanks, John. Good practical advice, though a bit outside my repair skill level. I'd shaved the saddle because the action was too high and i think probably should have addressed the nut first. Time to take it to an expert...
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#12
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The strings are not quite flush with the top of the nut but I think at this point I am going to take it to a pro. Thank you for your response.
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Tags |
ibanez acoustic, nut, tuning |
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