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  #31  
Old 09-17-2008, 08:45 AM
sdelsolray sdelsolray is offline
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Originally Posted by Herb Hunter View Post
If I understand what is being said here, people standing in front of a line array block the sound, but when they stand in front of a conventional speaker they, somehow, don't block sound.
If I put a PA speaker on the floor, or perhaps facing the back wall, and not up on a speaker stand, then yes. If I put it on a speaker stand at a proper height, then no.
  #32  
Old 09-17-2008, 10:11 AM
MikeTX MikeTX is offline
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Hey again Chris,

No problem - we all have opinions. And we all know what works for each of us.

In our band - each player has a Bose L1. When the singer/guitarists/bassist set up together with the drums on side, we can all hear fine. If the drums are in the middle, as they like to be, we have to run a monitor on the bassist side, because he can't hear the lead on the other side well enough.

Only once, recently, we used a pair of L1's, one on each side as a normal PA, when we backed a guy, headliner vocalist. It worked fine too. It was dual mono, I didn't hear any phasing problems. A little feedback yes, as we had it cranked and didn't have time to go over mic techniques with the guy.

In large outdoor events, we have used our usual setup onstage and lined out to a giant PA, and that works fine too.

The crowd type you describe - I wouldn't care to play that gig anyway, and the solo music I play, although upbeat and rocking, wouldn't be good for them anyway. I've gotten really spoiled, for the nice gigs where the music IS the focus. I also enjoy playing louder, classic rock dance music to boogie a crowd - but I would not want to do it where the Bose systems would not be enough - another gig I would pass on.

And, not to be contrarian, but I have no interest in the "pro's opinion" of Bose. We function in different worlds. They obviously do not need nor would they benefit from my opinion, but similarly, what works in their world is not necessary in mine. My need is clear sound with sufficient power, with simplicity and easy transport, setup and takedown. For the band (and solo), Bose works for me, and I'm hoping that the SoloAmp will do the same for my acoustic work. I also long to be OUT of "equipment seeking" mode, free to focus on the music and my delivery/interpretation of the songs.

Also interesting - you speak of the pros. I believe that the true elite, fabulous artistes - while they do have their favorite instruments and preferred gear - they're about the MUSIC, not the equipment! Give them any old guitar, within reason, and they will knock you out, with a SONG.

Two things I WOULD like to hear though...

One is the setup you describe and that Solderay uses, just to actually HEAR the other side of this tiresome discussion.

Second is - I would LOVE to hear one of my heroes, JT, Dykes, McCartney, whoever - sing and play thru MY system, Bose, in a nice but smaller room.

Bottom line - I'm pretty tired of the To Bose Or Not To Bose wastes of time, as I don't enjoy engaging with those who disagree with me, but it's also hard not to respond when my personal experience with it is so consistently positive, as confirmed by my listeners.

Keep rocking, keep smiling,
Mike
  #33  
Old 09-17-2008, 12:26 PM
Herb Hunter Herb Hunter is offline
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Originally Posted by sdelsolray View Post
If I put a PA speaker on the floor, or perhaps facing the back wall, and not up on a speaker stand, then yes. If I put it on a speaker stand at a proper height, then no.
As I posted earlier, one can also raise the L1, unless, of course the ceiling is too low.
  #34  
Old 09-17-2008, 01:12 PM
sdelsolray sdelsolray is offline
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As I posted earlier, one can also raise the L1, unless, of course the ceiling is too low.
Yes, that would help, although I've never seen anyone do that.
  #35  
Old 09-17-2008, 01:51 PM
alohachris alohachris is offline
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Default Well Said Mike - It's ABout the Music Not the Boxes

Aloha Mike,

Very well expressed. It IS all about the music, not the boxes that help amplify it.

However, with us all waiting for the first real world reviews regarding the Soloamp, the question of effective dispersion in crowds and how it relates to its much better (similar technology) cousin, the Bose, is worth asking, don't you think?

I mean, lots of people play in front of loud crowds occasionally, right? And they'll probably want to know if their $1K Soloamp will work as well as other technologies in the very important area of dispersion in crowds.

That's why I asked about it, not to be au contraire or pick a fight. We all hear differently, make our own choices. But our varying opinions here ask the questions that help people make an informed decision for themselves. It's ok to disagree, brother.

Like you, I'm not really a tweaker - despite all these recent posts. Before the last year and a half, when I upgraded with lots of help from folks like you and Sdelsolray and Matt, the last time I did so was in the mid-80's. SO I've been educating myself - and continue to do so as I move into computer recording.

But part of the reason why I went with my current component rig, and not a line array system such as the Bose, was my extensive experience of playing through that system, and finding it not working for my solo work in louder settings.

The band setup you describe, with each player having his/her own Bose, plus patching into house system, sounds like it would work in any setting! And that really works for your music. Fantastic. I've heard them sound good as well in concert. But most guys are just playing solo or duo through one stick - and that has limitations, in my experience; limitations people should know about before committing that kind of dough. So I've spoken my mind here about it plenty of times to help people understand MY experience with that technology.

Regarding the venues and crowds, I'd love to play in settings where the music is the total focal point. I do sometimes at house parties and especially at the private parties where most of the best music is played on Oahu. But in Hawaii, most gigs are all about separating tourists from their money, or selling drinks to locals. In those settings, the music is secondary (not to me mind you, but to my bosses).

That loud bar gig which I just jettisoned is very much the exception to most of my solo gigs. Mostly, I play in upscale hotel lounges, restaurants or out on the lanai being part of the greenery. So I don't really need the fire power my rig provides, But, when things get loud unexpectedly (and they will friends), like this Monday night, it's nice to know my technology can handle it.

But, will that kind of dispersion be there for Soloamp users? That's the question I'm asking.

But Mike, certainly, the music itself is what's important. The audio boxes just help us express, control and "sell It." Thanks for your thoughful reply. Man, I'd really like to hear your band setup as well. All the best!

A Hui Hou!
alohachris
  #36  
Old 09-17-2008, 02:24 PM
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Larry Pattis Larry Pattis is offline
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Originally Posted by MikeTX View Post
I unboxed it, looked it over, set it up in less than a minute, just like they said.

<<snip>>

I may or may not have time to set up the Bose and do a side by side A-B.

Thanks, Mike
Mike,

As a long-time Bose L1 (or PAS, or whatever they're calling it now!) user (with one sub), I am very much interested in your A-B on the direct comparison between the SoloAmp and Bose gear.

All else is moot for me!

Please post your thoughts on this.
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  #37  
Old 09-17-2008, 02:36 PM
alohachris alohachris is offline
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Default Aloha Sdelsoray, Matt, etc.

Aloha,

Sdel, At my former loud gig, where I used the single BOSE II system, and a single subwoofer, a couple of the other musicians who used the system and I talked the bar owner into letting us build a very elevated stage to try and help the Bose with better dispersion, especially in lower frequencies. I supplied the plywood gratis for the project.

The stage looked great. But the Bose's sound did not improve dramatically in the crowd. So, we tried to get the owner to buy another Bose system for a more powerful stereo system to fill that space but he wouldn't go for it. The Bose sounded good raised up like that at last call, after the crowds had left, but never worked well in the crowd.

Matt, I regret my choice of wording on "real pros." I guess I should have said "well-known acoustic soloists who've been playing professionally through every available sound system in the world for at least 40 years." Sorry for that lack of clarity. I am suprised that you had to Google Juber because he was with Paul McCartney for several years and is about as good an electric and acoustic player as you can find.

Rarely, I ask both Gerhard and Juber for gear opinions on their forums because they achieve great live tone. Both do not care for the Bose for the same reasons as I - "dispersion issues and compressed mids." Their words not mine. Just educated opinions, that's all.



So.....the question still stands. What about the Soloamp in louder settings? Anyone know yet? Please edjumacate this poor Island boy here,

alohachris
  #38  
Old 09-17-2008, 02:41 PM
MikeTX MikeTX is offline
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YES Brother Chris - I understand YOU better now too! One musician friend says we share DNA...

Actually, you're my hero man - living in Hawaii, making music - wow, I want to BE you!

Another thing is, I do not make a living with music, and/or don't do it (play out) every day or every week, so my perspective is different, and the gigs I have are different.

Your key point of the SoloAmp's dispersion and power is valid and a good one. While I won't be able to provide a complete answer, what I can and will do is report back if it does the job I need at this small cafe, and if the tone is satisfactory at least to me, and thus my listeners. My gig is Saturday.

All I know besides Aloha is Mahalo, and I bid you that, and Peace...

Mike
  #39  
Old 09-17-2008, 02:46 PM
MikeTX MikeTX is offline
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Default A-b

Hey Larry,

I MAY do that tonight, in my living room, but may have to do it next week or weekend.

My MUST DO for now is to dial in TONE that is acceptable to me, before my Saturday gig. That may take all my available time tonight (limited).

I'll let you know as soon as I can.

Thanks, Mike
  #40  
Old 09-17-2008, 03:45 PM
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open-road-matt open-road-matt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alohachris View Post
Matt, I regret my choice of wording on "real pros." I guess I should have said "well-known acoustic soloists who've been playing professionally through every available sound system in the world for at least 40 years." Sorry for that lack of clarity. I am suprised that you had to Google Juber because he was with Paul McCartney for several years and is about as good an electric and acoustic player as you can find.
I was mainly just giving you a hard time! I just thought it was funny that you said "ask real pros" and then named two people I had never heard of. I don't really pay much attention to folks that are known as "guitarists" so it actually isn't surprising that I haven't heard of them and obviously my lack of knowledge doesn't take away from them, their music, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Pattis View Post
Mike,

As a long-time Bose L1 (or PAS, or whatever they're calling it now!) user (with one sub), I am very much interested in your A-B on the direct comparison between the SoloAmp and Bose gear.

All else is moot for me!

Please post your thoughts on this.
+1 on that!

Matt
  #41  
Old 09-17-2008, 04:25 PM
alohachris alohachris is offline
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Default I'm Busted Matt!

Aloha Matt,

Eh, that's my job, man - geevum da hod times 'round heah, brah! But....asswhy!

A little pidgin for da Meedwestunah!

Eh, howusay, Soloammmppppp in pidgin, brah! Da jury's out on dat one.

Howzit, Matt?
alohachris
  #42  
Old 09-17-2008, 06:46 PM
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alohachris,

Thanks for a good laugh. I busted a gut in your earlier post where you made reference to an "okole"
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  #43  
Old 09-18-2008, 10:04 AM
MikeTX MikeTX is offline
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Default Still Preliminary Results

No A-B comparison or stuff like that yet - I'm struggling with limited time to get this thing ready to so a show Saturday.

I can say that simply plugging a guitar and mic straight in sounds pretty nice, seems pretty loud with some headroom left - which is pretty much what it was designed for. It sounds more like a LoudBox than a Bose to me.

My situation is more complicated than that. I need to be able to quickly switch guitars, and I also use a Digitech VoiceLive harmony thing. The guitars are voiced quite differently and I prefer to use two different pre-amps to make them sound best. All of this results in a fairly complicated cabling connection, and I was hoping to use my Bose T1 (mixer), as it is already prefectly set up for what I need, it's very convenient to use while playing, and I already know how to use it.

There's a pretty loud hiss when you plug the T1 into the SoloAmp, and nothing I tried would get rid of it. Pooh.

I made an initial test of one guitar, mic and harmony into a different, little Behringer mixer - it just may work ok. I hear a little noise, but much less than the T1. This alternative is not ideal for me, appearance- and logistics-and convenience- wise, but I'll make it work.

I understand/assume that the SoloAmp is focused and tuned SOLELY on acoustic guitar and a general microphone, so I guess something in the T1's Master Out is not what the SoloAmp is expecting, more tuned to the Bose L1. Oh well.

I very much WISH my setup was simple - that's what this quest is all about in the first place. But I like and need to play both my 6 and 12 strings, and the modest bit of harmony adds a needed touch of variety - so I gots to do what I gots to do!

I'll check back in after my Saturday gig, which is the real test anyway...

Thanks for listening fellows - Mike
  #44  
Old 09-18-2008, 10:32 AM
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open-road-matt open-road-matt is offline
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Originally Posted by MikeTX View Post
There's a pretty loud hiss when you plug the T1 into the SoloAmp, and nothing I tried would get rid of it. Pooh.
Mike,
What did you use to connect the T1 to the SoloAmp?

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Originally Posted by alohachris View Post
Da jury's out on dat one.
You'd be right at home in Wisconsin!
  #45  
Old 09-18-2008, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeTX View Post
My situation is more complicated than that. I need to be able to quickly switch guitars, and I also use a Digitech VoiceLive harmony thing. The guitars are voiced quite differently and I prefer to use two different pre-amps to make them sound best. All of this results in a fairly complicated cabling connection, and I was hoping to use my Bose T1 (mixer), as it is already prefectly set up for what I need, it's very convenient to use while playing, and I already know how to use it.
Which voicelive do you have? The new vl4 / vl2? You should be able to simplify it and drop the bose module altogether to avoid the hiss by doing something like this:

gtr-> Vocalist guitar thru -> AB split box -> Ch1/ ch2 of the soloamp switched based on your guitar.

Then you can run the vocal out of the vocalist to the aux in or monitor in of the soloamp using the effects of the digitech unit for vocals instead of the onboard fishman effects while having two different preamp settings for your guitars.
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