Nut Slot Files: Is there a less expensive way?

[bnjp]

If I could only afford a few files, I think I'd get the 3 piece set from Warmoth and maybe add in one or two smaller files (like a .013" and a .020"). Their files cut a "V" shaped slot, which I don't really mind.

http://www.warmoth.com/Nut-Files-Set-of-3-P44C215.aspx

[BothHands]

Abrasive Welding Tip Cleaner Rods
I ruled these out due to my lack of experience/skill. I'm not sure how well I'll do at first using real nut slot files...

Feeler Gauges
Alan Carruth and clintj use feeler gauge sets modified to have a serrated cutting edge - and the ability to combine the blades side-by-side makes for limitless slot widths. Excellent. Regarding Alan's interest in bolting two or more leaves together, I suggest the following sequence, assuming the use of a typical feeler gauge set with all leaves bolted together at one end - and held together within a frame/housing.

1. Remove the nut and remove all leaves from the frame.

2. Restack the leaves (outside the frame) and bolt them together through the existing hole.

3. Clamp the leaves together near the undrillled free end, leaving enough room to drill a second hole in that end.

4. Drill a single hole through all the leaves at once. It needs to be truly perpendicular to the side of the leaves, so a drill press is warranted. Then secure both ends of the entire stack of leaves using a nut-and-bolt at each end BEFORE you serrate the cutting edges en masse. This is important because multiple blades stacked side-by-side should cut best if all serrations/teeth are aligned with one another.

QUESTION: Assuming the teeth are raked, do you form them to cut on the pull stroke or the push stroke?


Needle Files
Charlesand John and Redir and B. Howard (more or less) have used inexpensive needle files. I can't imagine me using these to make slots that look anything like professional nut slots...(gonna take a LOT of practice ) Later today I'll look at my needle files carefully.


Nut Slot Files
Brucebubs:
Inexpensive Chinese set. At just $18ish, I would like to buy these, but I find no product information regarding the slot widths they cut.
QUESTION: Can you confirm what slot widths this set cuts?

Dru Edwards: Uo-Chikyu nut Japanese files (too expensive for me)

bnjp: Limited set of Warmoth files ($53), with a few more to augment as needed

TechnoFret innovations
Dan Halbert: Thanks for the heads-up regarding yet another unique tool by Murrmac123. It appears he is not selling that one at present, and it seems to be more a finisher than a cutter of slots. I saw something similar at Harbor Freight yesterday for about $6. It comes with just one fat abrasive-coated cable blade.

[BothHands]

Is THIS the type of razor saw to use?

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by BothHands

Is THIS the type of razor saw to use?

Yes. At least that's the one I've used for several decades. I've seen them for about half that price.

[BothHands]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

Yes. At least that's the one I've used for several decades. I've seen them for about half that price.

Thanks, Charles. Half the price several decades ago...?

[Frank Ford]

Deleted message - I should stay away from this kind of discussion. . .

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by BothHands

Thanks, Charles. Half the price several decades ago...?

http://www.amazon.com/Xacto-X75300-P.../dp/B00004Z2U4

[BothHands]

Originally Posted by Frank Ford

Deleted message - I should stay away from this kind of discussion. . .

Yeah, I can see how this might drive you crazy.

For better or worse, some of us have a creative bent, willingness-to-learn and desire enough to actually do something for ourselves. We jus' ain't gotcher tools, shop facilities or experience. If I did, you can bet I'd employ tried-and-true standard methods every time.

[redir]

It's not as hard as you think to just use regular old needle files. I'll probably get some real nut files some day. Nothing like having the right tool for the job. It's just that every time I sit down at the bench to slot or tune up a nut I just don't think about it and reach for the needle files.

[Alan Carruth]

Darn: I would like to know what Frank would say....maybe.

[Frank Ford]

Originally Posted by BothHands

Yeah, I can see how this might drive you crazy.

For better or worse, some of us have a creative bent, willingness-to-learn and desire enough to actually do something for ourselves.

And, that is exactly the point - actually doing it. Rather than studying and talking it to death, I think it's important to do the stuff. It's the doing, making mistakes, recovering, and doing again that constitutes the learning program in almost any craft.

Just as in playing music, you gotta make the mistakes, correct 'em, and keep going.

So, get the torch tip cleaners, use sandpaper over feeler gauges, use needle files, and/or try little saw blades. Just do it - that's how you'll learn.

I meet all kinds of folks who want to learn to build and/or repair guitars, and I see all kinds of approaches. The most successful in the long run are the guys who simply "go for it." By far, the least successful are the ones who are afraid of making mistakes.

A couple of years ago I talked to a fellow who had bought an acoustic guitar kit (Martin, LMI, StewMac - I've forgotten the source - it was a decent one) and he said he'd spent the quite a number of years looking for someone who would "help" him put it together.

After hearing my suggestions of sources for video and written instruction, he said, "No way I'm going to start this project until I'm certain I won't make any mistakes." It's clear to me that he will never make the mistakes, but will also never make an instrument at all.

Despite my insistence that "it's the journey rather than the desination," he could only focus on the end point. So he'll never take those first steps.

Make the mistakes. That's how we all learn.

I've been at this 45 years nonstop full time, and I make mistakes - LOTS of mistakes. Mistakes are fun - they're what it's all about - the journey after all. . .

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by Frank Ford

And, that is exactly the point - actually doing it. Rather than studying and talking it to death, I think it's important to do the stuff. It's the doing, making mistakes, recovering, and doing again that constitutes the learning program in almost any craft.

Just as in playing music, you gotta make the mistakes, correct 'em, and keep going.

So, get the torch tip cleaners, use sandpaper over feeler gauges, use needle files, and/or try little saw blades. Just do it - that's how you'll learn.

I meet all kinds of folks who want to learn to build and/or repair guitars, and I see all kinds of approaches. The most successful in the long run are the guys who simply "go for it." By far, the least successful are the ones who are afraid of making mistakes.

A couple of years ago I talked to a fellow who had bought an acoustic guitar kit (Martin, LMI, StewMac - I've forgotten the source - it was a decent one) and he said he'd spent the quite a number of years looking for someone who would "help" him put it together.

After hearing my suggestions of sources for video and written instruction, he said, "No way I'm going to start this project until I'm certain I won't make any mistakes." It's clear to me that he will never make the mistakes, but will also never make an instrument at all.

Despite my insistence that "it's the journey rather than the desination," he could only focus on the end point. So he'll never take those first steps.

Make the mistakes. That's how we all learn.

I've been at this 45 years nonstop full time, and I make mistakes - LOTS of mistakes. Mistakes are fun - they're what it's all about - the journey after all. . .

Well stated, Frank. Fully in agreement.

I am a "recovered perfectionist". Probably a psycho-analyst could find why I developed this way, but more importantly is the fact that, although I don't hope to make mistakes, I look at mistakes differently now compared to before. Specifically, mistakes are an opportunity for learning, deepening one's awareness, and strengthening one's skill at one's craft. In this way, mistakes do not take quality away from your achievements, but in fact lead to greater quality of achievement.

Another quick anecdote... When I was studying in Jazz school (university), a particular musician never came out to jam sessions because he wanted to practice and get better before attempting to perform publicly. Myself and others would play publicly as much as possible. Guess who ended up playing more gigs...??

[Kilgore Trout]

Originally Posted by Frank Ford

And, that is exactly the point - actually doing it. Rather than studying and talking it to death, I think it's important to do the stuff. It's the doing, making mistakes, recovering, and doing again that constitutes the learning program in almost any craft.

Just as in playing music, you gotta make the mistakes, correct 'em, and keep going.

So, get the torch tip cleaners, use sandpaper over feeler gauges, use needle files, and/or try little saw blades. Just do it - that's how you'll learn.

I meet all kinds of folks who want to learn to build and/or repair guitars, and I see all kinds of approaches. The most successful in the long run are the guys who simply "go for it." By far, the least successful are the ones who are afraid of making mistakes.

A couple of years ago I talked to a fellow who had bought an acoustic guitar kit (Martin, LMI, StewMac - I've forgotten the source - it was a decent one) and he said he'd spent the quite a number of years looking for someone who would "help" him put it together.

After hearing my suggestions of sources for video and written instruction, he said, "No way I'm going to start this project until I'm certain I won't make any mistakes." It's clear to me that he will never make the mistakes, but will also never make an instrument at all.

Despite my insistence that "it's the journey rather than the desination," he could only focus on the end point. So he'll never take those first steps.

Make the mistakes. That's how we all learn.

I've been at this 45 years nonstop full time, and I make mistakes - LOTS of mistakes. Mistakes are fun - they're what it's all about - the journey after all. . .

I agree 100%. That's why I bought a cheap bone nut and saddle the same day I bought my Yamaha. I just wanted to play around with it.
It amazes me how many people here say "take it to a tech" before even saying "try a 1/4 turn of the truss rod".
Hell, even the manual that came with my guitar told me how to adjust the truss rod by myself.
People should definitely have a little understanding before screwing with stuff, but it isn't rocket science or something everyone should be afraid of.

[BothHands]

Frank and Ned ==

I appreciate your comments and I take them in the positive spirit in which I'm sure they're meant. In fact, I take them quite seriously and must admit to being more or less guilty as charged, but in defense of my (perhaps maddening) approach consider the following:

1. The point of this forum is to share information about these issues, and if some of us with little experience happen to go kinda nerdy about certain topics, that's to be expected. That said, you're right - there's a natural point at which to stop seeking advice.

2. You probably can't imagine this, but I'm not trying to become a guitar tech. I would love to develop a fraction of the skills you guys have, but unless I take a job repairing guitars somewhere (and who would hire me for that?) I'm not likely to work on enough instruments to build the necessary experience.

My interest is in having two decent acoustic guitars (not expensive guitars, not yet) that sound as good as possible without my doubling the cost of each by paying a professional for additional setups, tweaks and mods. Whatever I can do for myself, I'll do. And what I can't do might not get done for a long time because bux is seriously low.

3. If I screw up one of my guitars, that one is seriously out-of-service...maybe forever. I don't have a lot of guitars and never wanted a lot. Just two and I'm good, and I don't have access to anybody else's guitars to work on, experiment on, or use as "loners" if I accidently turn one of mine into fireplace kindling.

I think it was Groucho Marx who said, You'll never be successful at anything for which you have too much respect. I am very respectful of quality luthiery - maybe way too respectful, so I appreciate you cluing me in. I always "consider the source" and MAN(!) you guys are THE SOURCE. So thanks.

[John Arnold]

The razor saw blades I mentioned are bare blades without the reinforcing bar or handle. That is why I can use the back side of them for checking the height of the slot. A thin piece of metal (like a feeler gauge or piece of spring steel) would serve the same purpose.
It may be possible to remove the XActo saw blade from the backing bar, but I have not done it. The blades I have were sourced that way.