How to Approach Obstacle in Practice Routine

[LezPall]

Hi all,
I am frustrated as I feel like I’m stuck when it comes to practicing. I’ve been playing for just over four years now but I have put in multiple hours daily and made really solid progress. This past year I began practicing between 4-6 hours a day with little exception. I also began to learn classical through the Carcassi method book, and started to learn jazz as well, since from the first year I’ve mainly played Chet Atkins style.

The problem mainly comes from my jazz study as it’s not as rigid as following the classical book. The concept of improvisation is overwhelming to me. Ultimately, I want to be able to compose and improvise finger style guitar pieces, writing interesting arrangements of popular tunes and improvising over standards with new ideas.

The problem is, every time I structure my practice schedule, I feel like after a week or two, I start to think it’s “wrong” and I move on. I just don’t feel like what I’m practicing is helping my goal of improv. For example, the only scales I “know” cold are the major scale (I’ve since forgotten the pentatonic as I never play with it anymore but learned it pretty good when I first started playing). I can play the major scale in all positions in both octaves in all keys. So I started practicing playing in thirds, fourths, etc. But I still feel my solos sound like crap, and that practicing in thirds or in fourths etc, was time wasted where I should have been copying others solos or trying to just improvise over a set of chord changes.

What I’m really stumped on is should I keep my current strategy, where my 2 hours of jazz oriented practice are broken up into an hour of 6 10 minute “scale” exercises, and another hour of chords, chord melody, and improv, or is this stretching myself too thin? In other words, is it more efficient to just focus on say writing lines for 30 min, improv for 30 min, one chord melody arrangement for 30 min, etc, rather than a bunch of studies at only 10 minutes each? Any advice on efficient practice and how you got a point of solo guitar improv is greatly appreciated

Happy playing

[Andyrondack]

If you take out a months subscription to www.activemelody you will find some lessons on how to do what you describe.
Take a look at the lessons on christmas songs and how to improvise around When The Saints Go Marching In.

[stanron]

Maybe this is part of your practice routine already but if not...

One form of improvisation is imagining a melody and then playing it. A simple first step would be to think of a tune you know and play it. You aim to make a link between the sounds in your head and your fingers on the guitar.

Once you can think of a tune and then play it you should be able to imagine a tune and play it. Then you'll be improvising.

[LezPall]

Originally Posted by stanron

Maybe this is part of your practice routine already but if not...

One form of improvisation is imagining a melody and then playing it. A simple first step would be to think of a tune you know and play it. You aim to make a link between the sounds in your head and your fingers on the guitar.

Once you can think of a tune and then play it you should be able to imagine a tune and play it. Then you'll be improvising.

I can do this with pretty much any tune within seconds and then transpose it in any key once I know the intervals. However, just playing single line Melodies of songs over and over and attempting to dress them up sounds like noodling and is usually pretty uninteresting and thin sounding. It’s trying to make good solo improvisations with harmony that feels impossible to me. If I had a Rythm guitarist my single line soloing wouldn’t sound bad, but definitely would sound amateur

[stanron]

It takes time to get from 'in a few seconds' to 'instant' but it can happen.

Scale patterns are often written across the neck. There is lots of mileage to be gotten from that but do you investigate scale patterns up and down single and pairs of strings? That can open doors.

Do you investigate stylistic differences between guitarists whose playing you like?

[Deliberate1]

First of all, congratulations on your commitment and progress. I too, am in my fourth year, though have taken a different path than yours, focusing on fingerstyle and Americana. I have written songs, both with an without lyrics.

But, to your concern. While I am relatvely new to the guitar, I have been a jazz winds player (tenor sax/clarinet) for more than half a century. I now play lead tenor in a 17 piece big band, and more recently, tenor in a cover band. Past work in various ensembles, including klezmer bands.

It is one of my life regrets that I did not learn theory in my youth. Instead, when I was a kid, I would put on records and play along - Brubeck, Paul Desmond, Bill Evans, Stan Getz and others. Over the years, I added more musicians and recordings. And each revealed something different. But what they all did was to teach me how to improvise, not from a formal theory approach, but by ear.

In time, I learned my horns well enough to create the music I heard in my head. Like using your voice to create words that express what you are thinking. Even now, in the big band, I pay some, but little attention to the chord changes on the charts. So long as I can hear the bass and piano (and band), and I know the tune, I can fashion an improvised melody, especially when I can anticipate what chord is coming up, based on the previous progressions and knowledge of the song. And I do it, after all these years, with some expertise.

Learning the guitar, a chordal instrument, has exposed me to theory I never had. That might eventually help in my horn work. But I am not relying on it. That improvised music comes from my gut, not from the page, or changes on it. Reading changes is a thoroughly differernt mindset. And when I improvise, I close my eyes.

So, allow me to suggest that you find some music that speaks to you, music that you "hear" and that you feel in your gut. Try something with a dependable I IV V progression (like trad blues) that you can hear and feel. And find notes on the guitar, one at a time, that fit. You will know it when you hear it. That is how you will learn your instrument and how to make music out of the ether. Like Charlie Parker said: 'First you learn the instrument, then you learn the music, then you forget all that s**t and just play.'

Wish you all the best on your journey. It is a rich one.

David

[JackC1]

Have you looked into music theory? I think it can help you by giving you ways to establish the tonic center and cadence. With just these 2 ideas, an improv can sound pretty good. Also, I think jazz reuses ideas, ie jazz standards. So, by memorizing those standards, you can sound pretty jazzy too.

You're like the opposite of me. My playing skills are way behind my theory. I can make pretty nice sounding music in Musescore but can't play. I wish I'm in your position. But I also know that you worked very hard to get there, and I'm not that dedicated.

[EZYPIKINS]

Do you ever play with another player.

One that plays the style you like.

Someone better than you.

[LezPall]

Originally Posted by JackC1

Have you looked into music theory? I think it can help you by giving you ways to establish the tonic center and cadence. With just these 2 ideas, an improv can sound pretty good. Also, I think jazz reuses ideas, ie jazz standards. So, by memorizing those standards, you can sound pretty jazzy too.

You're like the opposite of me. My playing skills are way behind my theory. I can make pretty nice sounding music in Musescore but can't play. I wish I'm in your position. But I also know that you worked very hard to get there, and I'm not that dedicated.

Yes I love learning about music theory and would say I have an above average (but only slightly) understanding of it. The problem is application. I know how to construct chords, how to name chords, how to make substitutions etc, but two things feel impossible right now: making the chord subs actually fit nicely, and doing all this in real time. I can understand most theory if it’s explained to me, but beyond harmonizing simple Melodys with triads, some 7th chords, etc, it probably takes me a good hour or two to write out one bar of an arrangement I’m working on

[LezPall]

Originally Posted by stanron

It takes time to get from 'in a few seconds' to 'instant' but it can happen.

Scale patterns are often written across the neck. There is lots of mileage to be gotten from that but do you investigate scale patterns up and down single and pairs of strings? That can open doors.

Do you investigate stylistic differences between guitarists whose playing you like?

Sometimes I play Melodie’s on one string only. I got the idea from bill frisell, a guitarist whose style I love, but I don’t do this often. Maybe I will try to do this daily

[LezPall]

Originally Posted by stanron

It takes time to get from 'in a few seconds' to 'instant' but it can happen.

Scale patterns are often written across the neck. There is lots of mileage to be gotten from that but do you investigate scale patterns up and down single and pairs of strings? That can open doors.

Do you investigate stylistic differences between guitarists whose playing you like?

Sometimes I play Melodie’s on one string only. I got the idea from bill frisell, a guitarist whose style I love, but I don’t do this often. Maybe I will try to do this daily

[stanron]

Here's another idea you might like to play with. In classical music there's a thing called a sequence. (Not to be confused with modern day sequencers or sequencing.)

Its a small musical phrase which is repeated one scale note higher or lower several times. The phrase can be as small as just two notes or, if your name is J S Bach it can be quite long and incredibly complex and beautiful.

The two note sequence can work nicely on paired strings. Third intervals work nicely on adjacent strings and sixths work well on first and third strings and second and fourth strings.

By the way, using the words play and guitar together highlights that there has to be an element of fun in this. It can't all be hard work.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by LezPall

…What I’m really stumped on is should I keep my current strategy, where my 2 hours of jazz oriented practice are broken up into an hour of 6 10 minute “scale” exercises, and another hour of chords, chord melody, and improv, or is this stretching myself too thin? In other words, is it more efficient to just focus on say writing lines for 30 min, improv for 30 min, one chord melody arrangement for 30 min, etc, rather than a bunch of studies at only 10 minutes each? Any advice on efficient practice and how you got a point of solo guitar improv is greatly appreciated

Happy playing

Hi LP
The best thing that ever happened to my playing was a gigging partner who was stronger musically in some areas and vice versa, and playing live gigs. We both have grown constantly over the past 30 years of playing together.

I had goals, interaction, someone to bounce ideas off of.

Scales are like reciting the alphabet, and are ok for knowing what's in the 'key' I'm working in. And there comes a point that they are just ok to warm up with, and not critical to my arranging or playing.

If I'm playing a song in a 'different' key than usual, I may run through some scale work in different regions of the neck to see how the fills, inversions, and solos may be affected, but that's about the limit to their usefulness for me (after playing for over 60 years).

Perhaps there are other 'influencers' which can keep your playing useful and interesting.

[TBman]

Maybe practicing classical on days 1, 3 and 5, jazz on 2, 4 and 6 and either rest on 7 or just play music instead of practicing.

You could work on your improvisations/compositions every day for the first two hours.

[Robin, Wales]

Put your guitars in their cases for a week. Spend the 4-6 hours a day practice time you have allocated simply listening to the styles of music you want to produce. Get the sounds, rhythm and flow in your head. Then take your guitars in hand again and produce music in the feel of what you have been listening to. That's improvisation.

You can learn all the scales, techniques and theory you want. But if you don't have the sounds in your head of where you want to go, you are wasting your time.

I don't play jazz guitar. But if I did want to learn, then I would buy jazz CDs and have jazz radio stations playing at home all day. I'd have a goal of playing in a jazz band of some kind, and a date and path by which that goal could be achieved. I would not be starting with scales and theory, but come to that as the reality of the music required over time.

But then again, I used to play dobro in a bluegrass band. So I was listening to the other musicians/singers and improvising for every song. All my practice away from the band was improvisation over whatever was playing on bluegrass radio stations at the time. I never actually "learnt" a single tune - because that wasn't my job!

So, if you want to learn to improvise, put your guitars down and listen to some music - value that as your "theory" and count it as formal practice time.