Spliting the money and duties??

[BluesCam]

Hello gang. I am in a duo. I do all the booking, I own the PA, the practice place, and I come up with the song list. I am sure some of you are in the same situtation. My duo partner is not willing to try to book us, but seems to expect 1/2 the money. How do you folks approach this without causing friction? Thanks!

[HHP]

Did you have the stuff already, prior to forming the duo or did you buy it solely to use with the duo? Is the money we're talking about significant to one or both of you?

If the clubs 1099 you, 1099 him.

You have to ask yourself how badly you need this guy. If the answer is yes you need him, and his price is 50%, well there ya go. If it's no, negotiate.

[YamahaGuy]

Money is always tough with band mates, friends, and family. I'm in a band where my wife sings, plays flute, and picks a lot of the music, my nephew plays bass, we practice at my drummer's house, and I play guitar, sing, supply the pa, mics and do 95% of the booking. When we get paid, I always split it evenly. Most of our members contribute fairly evenly and help out with set up, tear down, etc. My wife thinks she and I are entitled to the "lion's share" of the money. I play for the sake of playing and see the money as an added bonus.

I have friends who would team up with a third party who had paying venues lined up, play the gigs, and short the third party out of their fair share. They don't last very long like that and the fallout is a mess.

On a team, someone is the leader, someone is a manager type, someone is the grunt person, etc. Splitting hairs over who is worth more can be a messy, messy affair.

I hate to say it, but I think your partner is entitled to their half. Aside from drawing up a formal contract, splitting hairs over percentages is a subjective topic that, when involving money and musician's egos is bound to end in an ugly fight.

My 2c.

[Earl49]

When I have lead a ukulele group that performed, we generally divided up the proceeds per person. But I took extra shares for booking and providing the PA system, which I already had. So three shares for me out of the total (usually 10-12). Everyone was always happy to play (and collect) when good old Earl did all the work of setting up the gig, but strangely no one was ever around for load in or load out, and when I had to put the stuff back in storage at home.

I tried recruiting a "gig master" to help, to no avail. After a while it was easier just to turn down gigs. We usually enjoyed playing at senior centers and luau's, but if a 1099 was involved it was always my name on the form.

If you truly need this person as part of your act, try my approach by taking 60% or two-thirds and see if they still think the workload and proceeds are fair. If not, go solo..... JMO.

[RP]

Originally Posted by YamahaGuy

...Aside from drawing up a formal contract, splitting hairs over percentages is a subjective topic that, when involving money and musician's egos is bound to end in an ugly fight.

My 2c.

But it sounds like the alternative is for the OP to brood about this until they go their separate ways and/or the ugly fight happens anyhow. If the equipment had already been purchased and the practice space was already available, it might be difficult to put a "rental fee" on those. However, if the OP is continually spending time setting up gigs, it would seem that some sort of payment could be agreed on to account for time spent, maybe a 55/45 split on the gig rather than 50/50. As for the OP's hope that a new arrangement could be made without causing any friction, that's clearly a function of the relationship between he and his bandmate and how the matter is presented. I would say that the OP's presenting this on AGF shows that there's already some hard feelings in his mind about it....

[Bob Womack]

Originally Posted by BluesCam

Hello gang. I am in a duo. I do all the booking, I own the PA, the practice place, and I come up with the song list. I am sure some of you are in the same situtation. My duo partner is not willing to try to book us, but seems to expect 1/2 the money. How do you folks approach this without causing friction? Thanks!

This seems not so much a question of money as of leadership. You are clearly the band leader. The question becomes, "Do I love the band experience I have enough to give him half the money regardless of the unbalanced work load?"

If you do love the band experience enough to stay and are the leader, then you've got to deal with your own attitude. Your ego will say, "Tell him next week it is his turn to provide the PA," but the results could be a disaster if he doesn't know what he is doing. Same with song choice and booking. If you are the slightest bit a control freak you might just consider that you've currently got control of just about everything except pay and let that be your reward.

Bob

[00-28]

Originally Posted by BluesCam

I do all the booking, I own the PA, the practice place, and I come up with the song list.

So you own the PA, you practice at your place and choose the play list. So, that's your stuff, not really a big deal. What really bothers you is that he doesn't help with the booking. Your an adult, I think the two of you can work it out, if not, move on. Hope this helps.
Kind of reminds me of Simon and Garfunkel. All Art had to do was sing and poor Paul had to sing and play guitar. How messed up is that? No wonder they finally broke up.
......Mike

[BluesCam]

Thank you all for your replies. This is interesting insight from other players.
The amount of money is not the issue, really. It's about teamwork. The partner is also a friend. I guess I just have that "I have to do everything" feeling. The other issue I didn't mention is that he doesn't like to practice and once a week is all he can manage. But, he works full time and I don't. We both love to play live, so we have that in common. If I can get him to help load the PA, then the money becomes secondary. He has told me "I am not going to book the jobs, I'm just a guitar player." I think his view is that he is just a hired gun. Again, thanks for the input!

[ManyMartinMan]

Ahhh, friends and money. Sounds like you've got the old "I do all the work and you get half the money" feelings. Bob and RP said a lot so I'll just add my nickel's worth. Is this a true duo where the identity of the "duo" is truly both of you? If so, he's half. If it is your duo and you really do all the work and only need a sideman, then you have to decide how much you will pay your player (whatever he/she does: guitar, bass, uke, whistle...). It is always hardest when playing with family and friends - so I don't. If you have all the equipment you need and you book the gigs and you don't want to pay half then come up with a sub-contractor's agreement as to what fee you are willing to pay your side-help and move on. Otherwise, buck-up and continue to pay half. You, and only you, can decide what will make you happy. Even Simon and Garfunkel broke up.

[Steadfastly]

You could ask him, "how would you feel"? and explain your situation if it was him in your shoes.

Other phrases to use are "is this reasonable"?; what tasks are you willing to take on so the workload is balanced? If you don't want to do more what is a fair trade-off in percentages paid?

I like helping people out but like most, I don't like being taken advantage of. It think you feel the same.

[SongwriterFan]

Originally Posted by BluesCam

He has told me "I am not going to book the jobs, I'm just a guitar player." I think his view is that he is just a hired gun.

I think it would boil down to a couple of thoughts:

1) how much would your music "suffer" if he weren't there to accompany you

2) how much do you value the friendship over money matters?

[TBman]

Originally Posted by BluesCam

Hello gang. I am in a duo. I do all the booking, I own the PA, the practice place, and I come up with the song list. I am sure some of you are in the same situtation. My duo partner is not willing to try to book us, but seems to expect 1/2 the money. How do you folks approach this without causing friction? Thanks!

New partner.

[Long Road Home]

To oversimplify this, if this was a business, there would be costs associated with sales and marketing, as well as operations (load in/load out). They would be accounted for in any "net profit" calculation.

When I was part of a consulting group, we had an open conversation about how much effort it takes to develop client relationships and close business. We decided that, if one of us closed a piece of business and brought others in to work on part (or all) of the project, 15-35 percent of the fees paid to the consultant that was the "closer" felt fair. I made good money off both sides of that split. BTW, we were all good friends when we formed the group, and did this in order to avoid the friction.

One thing that you might want to consider is to talk with him about keeping track of how many hours you put into the next 5 gigs - booking and load in/load out, and then have an open conversation about what feels like a fair split at the current level of work, and how he could increase his share of the work and the split. He may not have the hours to devote if he's working full time and may just think that, since you don't, you have much more time to "do everything".

The other thing that you might consider is to go out and get a proposal for someone to handle the booking and load in/load out. The amount that someone would charge might be an eye opener for both of you.

In my experience, "feels fair" is the key, and it's obvious that it doesn't to you. It's got to be win-win or there's no long-term game. I also think your partner needs to realize that if you don't do the booking and load in/load out, then 50% of nothing is... well... nothing.

[Fairlight]

You have to make sacrifices for what you love to do. As a friend, even more so.
Maybe he could help you at least shlep stuff or even transport the heavy equipment to even out the effort?
You could also propose to shave off a small percentage of each gig's total $ take in anticipation of future tech repairs. That way you're covered if there is a mishap or blown tube.