Musings on a wider saddle a la Somogyi

[LouieAtienza]

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

A side note (no pun) on the 3/16" and 1/4" saddles of the world.

Installation of a standard flat/hard UST is somewhat problematic with this arrangement. One can try to shim or rout, but the end result will be (IMO) less than optimal in regards to overall saddle/pick-up/wood contact, etc.

OTOH, the wider saddles are quite-perfect for a good and proper installation of the coaxial-cable pick-ups, such as the Highlander IP-1.

I've been using the IP-1 exclusively for nearly a decade, now.

When properly installed, the coaxial cable is partially buried in a channel (routed) that runs down the center of the saddle slot (slightly to the front side, actually...not the exact center). The cable is then compressed by the saddle, and the bottom of the saddle makes full-contact with the front and back ledges of the slot. The routed channel is deep enough that the cable does not compress fully, i.e., the saddle does not pivot on the cable...it simply compresses it, and then rests on the ledges.

Installation of the routed channel (depth!) is crucial, of course.

The wider slot creates more wood "ledge" for the saddle to make contact with.

It's a perfect arrangement.

If one simply uses a microphone or a SBT, well, this is a moot point...but there are indeed plenty of good reasons presented in this thread as to why many of us like the wider saddle.

I prefer the wider saddle, regardless...but the pick-up thing is worth noting.

I use a wide saddle too, and do a similar thing now. Been favoring the Fishman Matrix Infinity, and they do make a wider 1/8" UST. So I simply route my 3/16" saddle slot, then rout a 1/8" wide slot just under 1mm depth, which is the thickness of the UST. This way, I do not have to make such a deep saddle slot, so the saddle is a bit thinner without it tipping one way or the other.

My other thought was to rout a <1mm depth slot into the saddle itself to straddle the UST, but haven't tried that yet.

[jessupe]

Garsh darn it, my next one after this one I'm building now will have a wider saddle. Generally not a "group think" kinda guy but 1. I've not tried it before and 2. I like Kostals reasoning as many people I know ditch standard tuning long ago, heck even lots of standard tuners are at 432 instead of 440. I guess the way I look at it is that there aren't many if any negatives and do seem to be some positives that had not occurred to me. So thanks for the post and discussion, you learn something new everyday.

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by LouieAtienza

I use a wide saddle too, and do a similar thing now. Been favoring the Fishman Matrix Infinity, and they do make a wider 1/8" UST. So I simply route my 3/16" saddle slot, then rout a 1/8" wide slot just under 1mm depth, which is the thickness of the UST. This way, I do not have to make such a deep saddle slot, so the saddle is a bit thinner without it tipping one way or the other.

My other thought was to rout a <1mm depth slot into the saddle itself to straddle the UST, but haven't tried that yet.

For the way my brain works (and in how I see the UST issue), *any* hard and/or flat UST is going to be problematic if it is not a full-width fit on these wider saddles.

That's why I find the IP-1 to be such a great solution.

[jt1]

Originally Posted by Tim McKnight

Chuck,
Keep in mind that the nut compensation is only a valid point when playing open strings and is moot when strings are fretted. In the latter, intonation control falls back to only having adjustment at the saddle.

Not so, Tim. Compensation at the nut has the effect of moving fretting distance relative to nut. The compensation remains even if notes are fretted.

Put differently, compensating the nut (like compensating the saddle) changes the scale length of the compensated string. The scale length is not going to change when the string is fretted.

[LouieAtienza]

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

For the way my brain works (and in how I see the UST issue), *any* hard and/or flat UST is going to be problematic if it is not a full-width fit on these wider saddles.

That's why I find the IP-1 to be such a great solution.

Have not used the IP-1 yet but looking into it now, thanks....

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by LouieAtienza

Have not used the IP-1 yet but looking into it now, thanks....

Please make sure to read the PDF available for installation. The channel depth listed in the instructions is for 0.050". If you go deeper than that you will lose gain...I usually ask my local super-tech (Dennis Berck) to go at 0.047" or 0.048". He has a jig that can be dialed in to the thousandth of an inch.

It's an installation that requires precise work. You can buy the proper bit from Highlander, and it needs to be a one-pass kind of thing.

Once done, it's done...and it's the single-element system that I have used for years. My favorite....and with good reason.

[LouieAtienza]

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

Please make sure to read the PDF available for installation. The channel depth listed in the instructions is for 0.050". If you go deeper than that you will lose gain...I usually ask my local super-tech (Dennis Berck) to go at 0.047" or 0.048". He has a jig that can be dialed in to the thousandth of an inch.

It's an installation that requires precise work. You can buy the proper bit from Highlander, and it needs to be a one-pass kind of thing.

Once done, it's done...and it's the single-element system that I have used for years. My favorite....and with good reason.

Likely I'd CNC it as one operation with the entire bridge, Have my small CNC metalworking mill set up with a 3HP 24krpm spindle for high speed aluminum machining as well as wood, so it should be no problem-o... thanks!

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by LouieAtienza

Likely I'd CNC it as one operation with the entire bridge, Have my small CNC metalworking mill set up with a 3HP 24krpm spindle for high speed aluminum machining as well as wood, so it should be no problem-o... thanks!

Cool.

Last IP-1 install comment...place the channel just slightly forward in the slot, not dead-center, front to back...maybe 1/64" towards the soundhole.