Using red tape from Trance Audio to install K&K?

[Petty1818]

I wrote this in another thread and never got a reply so I thought I would start a new one and try again. I realize that the K&K pure mini uses super glue for the installation and that this is strongly recommended. However, the red tape supplied by Trance Audio for the Amulet seems to be very, very thin. I wonder how the K&K would sound with the red tape used?

There were a few things that popped up that led me to ask this. First, the Amulet uses the tape and it provides good results. It would seem that all SBT's at least share some similarities so it makes sense that the red tape would work. Second, I remember reading the thread where James May introduced his Ultra tonic pickup. He mentioned that he has used 3M tape to install them with similar results to the super glue method. 3M tape seems to be even thicker than the stuff Trance uses and the Ultra Tonic is very similar to the K&K pure mini. Lastly, I know when installing the K&K transducers on mandolins, tape is recommended. I think this is to tame the high end but still, it seems as if tape, especially the thin rep tape, would work well.

Anyway, I am interested in trying this. The only issue is that the red tape is cut more for the shape of the Amulet transducers. I might have to piece a couple together to cover the K&K transducer discs.

[James May]

How thick is the Amulet red tape? Anyone measured it?

The stuff that I've used is 3M 254M which is 0.003 thick. I can't say with 100% certainty, but my impression is that this is thin enough to not cause much if any sonic harm.

[AeroUSA]

James do you use tape on all of your K&K installs?

[James May]

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

James do you use tape on all of your K&K installs?

No, I don't use tape. My installs are my Ultra Tonic pickup which have very similar discs, so it's a valid question.

I only offer the info about tape for folks that are hesitant to glue, which I am not. The point being that I think you'd get very similar results with tape.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by James May

How thick is the Amulet red tape? Anyone measured it?

The stuff that I've used is 3M 254M which is 0.003 thick. I can't say with 100% certainty, but my impression is that this is thin enough to not cause much if any sonic harm.

To be honest, I am not sure. It's incredibly thin though. I might give it a try. The thing is, there's really no way to do a comparison of the red tape to super glue but if I get good results with the tape, I might just leave it. I currently have the Amulet M in my guitar but I want to go back to a passive system, especially since I will be pairing it with the Tonedexter. I think my particular guitar would also benefit from a SBT that's a bit warmer as the Amulet really showcases the high end.

[varmonter]

I think the concern with tape is longevity
of the install. Certainly if it's thin it should
Transfer vibration better than the thick
Stuff supplied with KK. One would think
Cyano glue will "make it one" with the guitar.
Tape degrades with age and o2.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

To be honest, I am not sure. It's incredibly thin though. I might give it a try. The thing is, there's really no way to do a comparison of the red tape to super glue but if I get good results with the tape, I might just leave it. I currently have the Amulet M in my guitar but I want to go back to a passive system, especially since I will be pairing it with the Tonedexter. I think my particular guitar would also benefit from a SBT that's a bit warmer as the Amulet really showcases the high end.

I wonder if Gary Hull of Trance Audio would sell a sheet of the "permanent" red tape which could then be sized to other transducer shapes and sizes? Perhaps, it comes in larger dimensions than the strip size packaged with Amulet systems? Better yet, it would be nice to discover the name of the company that makes Trance's "permanent" tape and order directly from it.

I just took apart and measured the components of a Trance "permanent" adhesive strip which yielded the following measurements:

Red "Permanent" Tape Thickness Dimensioning Using Mitutoyo Digital Calipers: .0175" (overall tape thickness) - .003" (white backing paper) - .005" (red backing paper) = .0095" (adhesive thickness) - .0005" cumulative measurement factor = .009" actual adhesive thickness

Having experience with both Trance "permanent" tape and 3M .003" thick tape gave me the impression that the Trance tape would be a denser medium under mounted transducers.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by James May

How thick is the Amulet red tape? Anyone measured it?

The stuff that I've used is 3M 254M which is 0.003 thick. I can't say with 100% certainty, but my impression is that this is thin enough to not cause much if any sonic harm.

I just took apart and measured the components of a Trance "permanent" adhesive strip which yielded the following measurements:

Red "Permanent" Tape Thickness Dimensioning Using Mitutoyo Digital Calipers: .0175" (overall tape thickness) - .003" (white backing paper) - .005" (red backing paper) = .0095" (adhesive thickness) - .0005" cumulative measurement factor = .009" actual adhesive thickness

Having experience with both Trance "permanent" tape and 3M .003" thick tape gave me the impression that the Trance tape is a denser medium under mounted transducers.

[SpruceTop]

Hmmmm ... I wonder if 3M .003" foam tape would yield better sonic results for mounting Amulets than Trance "permanent" tape?

[Bob Womack]

If you end up trimming it to size you'll find yourself cutting through the red tape.

Again.

Bob

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Hmmmm ... I wonder if 3M .003" foam tape would yield better sonic results for mounting Amulets than Trance "permanent" tape?

Interesting thought! I am sure Gary tried the 3M tape though, as it's fairly popular. I might try the red tape/K&K installation. There's really no harm in it at all.

Just to be clear though, do you have a link to the 3M tape that's being discussed here? I might get it to try as well.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Interesting thought! I am sure Gary tried the 3M tape though, as it's fairly popular. I might try the red tape/K&K installation. There's really no harm in it at all.

Just to be clear though, do you have a link to the 3M tape that's being discussed here? I might get it to try as well.

I was thinking of 3M VHB Tape which is the same tape that LR Baggs and Schatten Design supply for mounting their I-BEAM transducer and HFN Artist transducers, respectively. This tape comes in various thicknesses with .003" being about the thinnest. Here's a link to the 3M page for VHB tapes: https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-...94857497&rt=r3

James May indicated he's used 3M 254M .003" thick tape but this designation doesn't yield any results when searched for on the 3M website.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

I was thinking of 3M VHB Tape which is the same tape that LR Baggs and Schatten Design supply for mounting their I-BEAM transducer and HFN Artist transducers, respectively. This tape comes in various thicknesses with .003" being about the thinnest. Here's a link to the #Mpage for VHB tapes: https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-...94857497&rt=r3

James May indicated he's used 3M 254M .003" thick tape but this designation doesn't yield any results when searched for on the 3M website.

Gotcha, thanks! I had ruled out the 3M tape that Baggs supplies as I find it to be a bit thick. I didn't realize it came in different versions. I do have a lot of the red tape lying around. I might give this a try.

[Wild Bill Jones]

I can’t speak to whether the tape would work as well as glue but having installed a few K&K’s and Amulet’s I think getting the proper clamping presume on the K&K transducers needs to be considered. Trance recommends clamping each of their transducers for 12 hours each. I used a clamp from Stew Mac
(recommended by another forum member by the way) and know of no better way to do this. The turnbuckle clamps Trance provides are clumsy and difficult to work with.

[Howard Emerson]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

If you end up trimming it to size you'll find yourself cutting through the red tape.

Again.

Bob

<thud>.........

Happy New Year, Bob:-)

HE