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Old 10-04-2017, 02:40 PM
Guitar Slim II Guitar Slim II is offline
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Default Convolution Reverb Questions

I've been recording a lot of solo guitar lately, and word on the street is that a convolution reverb is great for natural, acoustic instruments. I'm definitely ready to find some alternatives to the pre-packaged reverbs in Pro Tools.

I looked at Altiverb - and immediately looked away when I saw the price! Plus, I don't think I meet the processing reqs.

Waves IR-1 seems more within my budget. I actually used it once, many years ago, probably Ver. 1, so I know a little bit about how these reverbs work.

Opinions? Recommendations? Is the current IR-1worth it? Are there other alternatives out there?

Also, more generally speaking, if you do use convolution reverbs, what are your favorite kinds of spaces, and for what kinds of instruments...
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Old 10-04-2017, 03:29 PM
sdelsolray sdelsolray is offline
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I have both Altiverb and Waves IR convolution reverbs. They're both nice, particularly Altiverb. If you get the Waves verb, also get the extra impulse responses that you can buy separately.
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Old 10-04-2017, 04:45 PM
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As far as convolution reverbs I currently use Waves IR and Voxengo Pristine Space. Waves IR tends somehow to be a bit darker and thicker sounding on the same impulse responses compared to other convolution reverbs I have tried. Good impulse responses are as important or more so than anything else. What I use most is a good set of them based on sampling from a Bricasti M7 - here http://www.samplicity.com/bricasti-m7-impulse-responses.

Not convolution software but very smooth is a brand new reverb from LiquidSonics - Seventh Heaven. Is is also based on the Bricasti M7. Here:
https://www.liquidsonics.com/software/seventh-heaven/
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Old 10-04-2017, 06:46 PM
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I used to use the Waves IR quite a bit and it is a pretty good verb.
But I now have a Bricasti M7 and sonics produced by the Bricasti algorithms are really nice, it is all I use , so if I did not have the hardware I would consider the Liquid Sonics Seventh Heaven
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Old 10-04-2017, 07:43 PM
DupleMeter DupleMeter is offline
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Waves will give you a 7 day demo of any of their plugs. I'd give it a try and see how you like it.

While you're at it, grab the Waves H-Reverb & compare the 2. I've been liking that one lately.
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Old 10-04-2017, 08:09 PM
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I've tried a lot of convolution plugins, and I like the idea. But the reverbs I prefer are not convolution. On the high end, the Bricasti M7 hardware is pretty tough to beat. The TC Electronic VSS3 plugin is fantastic as are the Lexicon Native reverbs. And if you have UAD hardware, there are a bunch of plugins there that are terrific as well. I have IRs for Bricasti, TC 6000, and Lexicon. They're nice, and some are free, but somehow the other reverbs just have something extra. I use these all for solo guitar.
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Old 10-04-2017, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
I've tried a lot of convolution plugins, and I like the idea. But the reverbs I prefer are not convolution. On the high end, the Bricasti M7 hardware is pretty tough to beat. The TC Electronic VSS3 plugin is fantastic as are the Lexicon Native reverbs. And if you have UAD hardware, there are a bunch of plugins there that are terrific as well. I have IRs for Bricasti, TC 6000, and Lexicon. They're nice, and some are free, but somehow the other reverbs just have something extra. I use these all for solo guitar.
Do you think VSS3 Native equals the sound of the discontinued VSS3 PowerCore?

Then as another example of the trend of "into the box" you have PCM Native Reverb versus the Lexicon hardware units.

Is Bricasti M7 next? Do you use its analog in/outs or do you keep it all digital?
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Old 10-04-2017, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
Do you think VSS3 Native equals the sound of the discontinued VSS3 PowerCore?
Well, I haven't had the powercore hardware in a long time, but I think the native version is at least as nice. I liked the powercore version, but somehow the native version seems better. Can't guarantee that tho.

Quote:
Then as another example of the trend of "into the box" you have PCM Native Reverb versus the Lexicon hardware units.
I've never had a really good Lexi hardware unit, so I can't compare those. The native plugins sound really good (you have those, right?) and I also like the UAD Lexicon reverb a lot.

Quote:
Is Bricasti M7 next? Do you use its analog in/outs or do you keep it all digital?
I think it's always hard to bet against the growth of software. Over time, stuff that was once hardware-only always ends up being as good or better in software, as computers get more powerful. But the IRs as well as the Bricasti emulator don't sound as good to me as the hardware for now.

I use the digital IO
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Old 10-05-2017, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post

I think it's always hard to bet against the growth of software. Over time, stuff that was once hardware-only always ends up being as good or better in software, as computers get more powerful. But the IRs as well as the Bricasti emulator don't sound as good to me as the hardware for now.

I use the digital IO
I use the digital I/O also. AES.
I'm sure we have probably discussed this before but I forget, is there one particular preset you like on solo guitar, and do you change any parameters on it ?
For me (because I do vocals also )Now days I pretty much use the Sunset Chamber for both voc and guitar and any other instruments that I might want verb on , with the pre-delay parameter adjusted to 60 ms. I do this one size fits all , because it brings some cohesiveness, sounds so good and probably because I am lazy, and I can use it on multiple sources in real time, without have to print it.
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Last edited by KevWind; 10-05-2017 at 02:05 PM.
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Old 10-05-2017, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
I use the digital I/O also. AES.
I'm sure we have probably discussed this before but I forget, is there one particular preset you like on solo guitar, and do you change any parameters on it ?
For me (because I do vocals also )Now days I pretty much use the Sunset Chamber for both voc and guitar and any other instruments that I might want verb on , with the pre-delay parameter adjusted to 60 ms. I do this one size fits all , because it brings some cohesiveness, sounds so good and probably because I am lazy, and I can use it on multiple sources in real time, without have to print it.
Comes and goes with me, Sunset Chamber is very nice. Concert B is a good one. Actually, they're all good ones :-) Right now on my speed buttons is Studio D, Studio B Far, Guitar Room, Large Hall. I've played around with parameters, but mostly the stock sounds are just terrific, and I just scroll around till I find a preset that works.
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Old 10-06-2017, 05:58 AM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Are you guys putting reverb on the recorded track itself or on an aux track?

I've found that I get much better results setting up an aux track for the reverb, then finding the right balance of the non-verb and verbed tracks. That also allows me to eq just the reverb where I usually like to roll off some bottom end and occasionally some top end.

As for what reverbs I like...
Altiverb is excellent but expensive, as the OP said. I got lucky and found someone selling their license for about a third off, but even with that discount it was expensive. I also like a couple of non-convolution reverbs from Eventide: Tverb and Ultrareverb. I've also used Valhalla Vintage Verb (not as often since I've added the others I've mentioned) and that one is great value at $50.
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Old 10-06-2017, 07:43 AM
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Jim.
I almost always set up reverb on an aux track and send to it . I started doing this fairly early on, because it was how Dave Martin (a Nashville area based engineer, producer, studio owner) , did it when I recorded some demo tracks with him.
Generally (unless I want a very noticeable pronounced effect) I put time domain FX on aux tracks, and only put compression and or eq on the individual audio or midi tracks
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Old 10-06-2017, 08:09 AM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
I put time domain FX on aux tracks, and only put compression and or eq on the individual audio or midi tracks
That's become my preferred method as well but I only got to that point about 18 months ago.
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Old 10-06-2017, 08:59 AM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
Generally (unless I want a very noticeable pronounced effect) I put time domain FX on aux tracks, and only put compression and or eq on the individual audio or midi tracks
Before DAW's, that's how everyone did it. It was the only option, because meat-and-potatoes studios would only have one or two reverb units plus a tape machine for slap delay. But now, with the computer power we have and nearly unlimited plugin instances, giving each track its own custom-tweaked effect inserts is not only doable, but can be sonically preferable if you're willing to take the time. I think so, anyway.

One school of thought goes that everything sent through the same aux to the same reverb gives a sense of cohesiveness. It doesn't sound like one or two people doing overdubs, it's more like a band all playing together in a room. This may be true, and it may be what you want. But it isn't the only way to make a record, it may not be the best way to present the song, and it may not be "how you hear it in your head."

Main thing is, we have both methods available to us, and they both have their merits. For someone like me who started recording way back when, the 2017 options for doing it are pretty cool.
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Old 10-06-2017, 04:03 PM
DupleMeter DupleMeter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
Are you guys putting reverb on the recorded track itself or on an aux track?
Always on an aux and always after an EQ to tailor the reverb response.
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