Lighten up

[Ze.]

I may just have to accept defeat and lighten up on the strings i use for picking at home .The first teacher i had many years ago always said 10s or11s for playing but he wasnt a picker and he was a gigging musician so he was thinking volume .I on the other hand just play at home and have leaned to picking as a style ...its so hard to get all the clear sounds from each pluck and apply the needed pressure with these strings on .What would you say an ideal gauge is for picking

[Pine]

Hi Ze. What kind of guitar are you using? Given the forum one could assume a steel string acoustic, but we should be sure. Also, what is the gauge of string you are using currently?

Knowing these 2 things should help folks provide more targeted advice.

[Ze.]

Originally Posted by Pine

Hi Ze. What kind of guitar are you using? Given the forum one could assume a steel string acoustic, but we should be sure. Also, what is the gauge of string you are using currently?

Knowing these 2 things should help folks provide more targeted advice.

Yea i should have said ...i'm using an old yamaha steel stung guitar that isnt worth much so i kept it hanging around .I'm sure it will have 10s on it

[FwL]

.012 for the high E is considered light guage on an acoustic. I can't imagine getting anything but fret rattle on lighter strings.

Is your guitar in serious need of some.setup work?
.
.

[Ze.]

Originally Posted by FwL

.012 for the high E is considered light guage on an acoustic. I can't imagine getting anything but fret rattle on lighter strings.

Is your guitar in serious need of some.setup work?
.
.

Just might be it is a guitar i don't even know where it came from .I'm starting to think about how much pressure i'm applying as i pick the steel strings and such (don't know the term for it ) but they just seem so heavy for me at this time of returning to guitar .Might just be until i pick up more dexterity again in my right hand

[SunnyDee]

Originally Posted by Ze.

Just might be it is a guitar i don't even know where it came from .I'm starting to think about how much pressure i'm applying as i pick the steel strings and such (don't know the term for it ) but they just seem so heavy for me at this time of returning to guitar .Might just be until i pick up more dexterity again in my right hand

.12 isn't very heavy, but D'Addario 12s I just took off went up to 53 and that did feel pretty heavy to me. I have some 11-47 Martin's on right now and they are easier to barre, a bit light for my taste but I had them around and they are ok. I'm not sure what part you are having trouble with, but go ahead and try lighter for a while, why not?

[TKT]

Honestly I have had so many guitars pass through my hands, even though I don't have a lot of skill I can make some relaxing (to me) noise and I really enjoy it, but one really big deal for me is setup.

I learned after a lot of buying and selling off guitars that the biggest mistake I was making was not learning about and putting the time into getting a really good setup on any guitar I bought, especially as most were older and used and cheap, even before figuring out what strings worked best on it. I'm over 60 and my hands have been used hard, so I have pain, swelling and stiffness.

I started digging around sites like frets.com to learn how to setup my guitars. I started making them all better players if they weren't set up right, and it let me figure them out better as far as if they were going to be keepers, because I was on that search for "The One".

If it's an old steel string with no adjustable truss rod you're limited, but maybe you need to take off the strings, clean it up, put a straight edge on the neck and see if it's straight to start. Then you can string up your two E strings and see what the action looks like. If there is no truss rod and the neck has a bow, or your action is really high and you have room to adjust the saddle, try that. Go slow and do it carefully. Keep checking string height. Get an action that is comfortable, then put on new strings. I just set up an old Larrivee parlor, dropped in a new bone saddle that I lowered a touch, put on some Plectrum 10s, plays like butter.

If I don't do this with my guitars I won't last more than another few years. Also check out Jamie Andreas, she has some free videos and tutorials about how to use minimal pressure so you aren't pressing harder than you need to. But if your action is high, lighter strings are just going to go sharp easier.

If you're really having issues with the Yamaha, you might want to hunt around on Craigslist for a newer economy or better guitar. There's some really good stuff out there, for not a lot if you are buying used, the market is still soft.

[Ze.]

Originally Posted by TKT

Honestly I have had so many guitars pass through my hands, even though I don't have a lot of skill I can make some relaxing (to me) noise and I really enjoy it, but one really big deal for me is setup.

I learned after a lot of buying and selling off guitars that the biggest mistake I was making was not learning about and putting the time into getting a really good setup on any guitar I bought, especially as most were older and used and cheap, even before figuring out what strings worked best on it. I'm over 60 and my hands have been used hard, so I have pain, swelling and stiffness.

I started digging around sites like frets.com to learn how to setup my guitars. I started making them all better players if they weren't set up right, and it let me figure them out better as far as if they were going to be keepers, because I was on that search for "The One".

If it's an old steel string with no adjustable truss rod you're limited, but maybe you need to take off the strings, clean it up, put a straight edge on the neck and see if it's straight to start. Then you can string up your two E strings and see what the action looks like. If there is no truss rod and the neck has a bow, or your action is really high and you have room to adjust the saddle, try that. Go slow and do it carefully. Keep checking string height. Get an action that is comfortable, then put on new strings. I just set up an old Larrivee parlor, dropped in a new bone saddle that I lowered a touch, put on some Plectrum 10s, plays like butter.

If I don't do this with my guitars I won't last more than another few years. Also check out Jamie Andreas, she has some free videos and tutorials about how to use minimal pressure so you aren't pressing harder than you need to. But if your action is high, lighter strings are just going to go sharp easier.

If you're really having issues with the Yamaha, you might want to hunt around on Craigslist for a newer economy or better guitar. There's some really good stuff out there, for not a lot if you are buying used, the market is still soft.

Yea the Yamaha has gone and i bought a new Epiphone EJ-200 cutaway (king of the flattops as they are called ) and it came with 12s on it and i'm loving them on this guitar .

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Ze.

Yea the Yamaha has gone and i bought a new Epiphone EJ-200 cutaway (king of the flattops as they are called ) and it came with 12s on it and i'm loving them on this guitar .

Great! Sounds like it was a severe set-up issue on the Yamaha (good guitars normally).

Personally - even after 50+ years playing - I find even 12s a little tough (and my guitar is perfectly set-up). I used them for ages, but dropped to 11s (custom lights) around 20 years ago. A slight loss in volume and tone, but worth it for feel. (I discovered much later than my personal hero Bert Jansch used the same custom lights. To rather better effect than me... Bert used Yamahas, btw, but mine is a Guild.)

[SunnyDee]

Originally Posted by TKT

Honestly I have had so many guitars pass through my hands, even though I don't have a lot of skill I can make some relaxing (to me) noise and I really enjoy it, but one really big deal for me is setup.

I learned after a lot of buying and selling off guitars that the biggest mistake I was making was not learning about and putting the time into getting a really good setup on any guitar I bought, especially as most were older and used and cheap, even before figuring out what strings worked best on it. I'm over 60 and my hands have been used hard, so I have pain, swelling and stiffness.

I started digging around sites like frets.com to learn how to setup my guitars. I started making them all better players if they weren't set up right, and it let me figure them out better as far as if they were going to be keepers, because I was on that search for "The One".

If it's an old steel string with no adjustable truss rod you're limited, but maybe you need to take off the strings, clean it up, put a straight edge on the neck and see if it's straight to start. Then you can string up your two E strings and see what the action looks like. If there is no truss rod and the neck has a bow, or your action is really high and you have room to adjust the saddle, try that. Go slow and do it carefully. Keep checking string height. Get an action that is comfortable, then put on new strings. I just set up an old Larrivee parlor, dropped in a new bone saddle that I lowered a touch, put on some Plectrum 10s, plays like butter.

I've looked into doing this myself a bit, but I'm still intimidated by it. I'm a real DIYer, though, so I want to. Have you ever made it too low so it buzzes near the nut? That's my worry.The Martin I have is awfully low at the nut already, but I feel might still be high as it goes up the neck. Do you have a pile of extra saddles in case you lower it too much? I've seen a number of videos but still don't feel like I know what to do about that. Can you point to some resources that really show how?

[TKT]

When one learns how all the different parts work together to create action and proper intonation, the nut is where you start (usually one doesn't need to adjust the truss rod on a new guitar, and that should be done in tiny increments if necessary). Most of the say $800 up guitars I've seen are good at the nut, but that is usally assessed first for string height. If it is already low, I'd look to your saddle if the neck is straight.

Instead of working on the saddle you have, unless you can already see it's pretty tall, you can get a replacement from StewMac or McNichol Guitars off eBay, or try Bob Colosi (but I've had trouble reaching him). Then you have to sand and fit the saddle, which takes patience and repeated rounds of "sand a little, check fit". Saddles come a tiny bit fatter so the sides need to be sanded as well, and a couple hairs longer. But that way you don't worry about messing up the original. It's extremely important that the bottom of the saddle stay flat and smooth, and not be tilted forward or back. I use power tools to get most of the bottom off bone, then do the last with a file and then the tuning with sandpaper, then I use a few polishing pads to get a superfine polish on the bone saddle and or pins. If you have a low saddle it can be shimmed, shims of various sizes are available at luthier supply shops online.

If the nut slots get too deep, they can be fixed by filling the slot with a drop of super glue and a powder and reslotting. Some people use baking soda but I like marble dust for a white saddle. A lovely set of nut slot files would be great but I use torch tip cleaning round files. I pick the one that is the size of the string. I shape the slot to have a shallow backwards ramp toward the tuners.

I've cleaned up a lot of old beaters that were cheap enough to not worry much about messing up, and they all left in better shape than I got them. Now I do my more expensive guitars without worry. I know what I like, and I do a little bit at a time, and will restring and play until it feels good. If it's close then I keep the guitar strung up and see if anything moves, since the neck will add some relief when under tension.

My best advice is to really take the time to assess the entire guitar by going through all the steps a good luthier would do, from checking neck angle and how flat or bellied the top is, fret levels (are they level, are some high or low?), and studying how each of those things affect playability and sound.

Google is your friend, and you do have to put some time in. The links below are a good start.

http://thbecker.net/guitar_playing/g...p_page_01.html

http://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Online...tructions.html

https://www.premierguitar.com/articl...coustic_Guitar

https://www.google.com/search?client...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

https://www.google.com/search?client...BGAQ1QIIpgEoBg

[SunnyDee]

Originally Posted by TKT

When one learns how all the different parts work together to create action and proper intonation, the nut is where you start (usually one doesn't need to adjust the truss rod on a new guitar, and that should be done in tiny increments if necessary). Most of the say $800 up guitars I've seen are good at the nut, but that is usally assessed first for string height. If it is already low, I'd look to your saddle if the neck is straight.
...
Google is your friend, and you do have to put some time in. The links below are a good start.

This is very helpful, thank you. It was a good guitar to start with, but I was a complete beginner so it took me close to a year before I decided maybe some adjustment would be helpful. I wouldn't mind paying someone to do it, but I work internationally, and may live where there is no one skilled in this for months, even years at a time. Thank you for taking the time, this helps.

[TKT]

Sunny Dee, you're most welcome! I started learning to do what I could myself because of the expense of getting a pro to do it. I wish I had the space to set
up for tackling some repairs.

Ze., I'm glad you got a new guitar, that sounded like it might be the best option. Extra cool that you are so happy with it!

[Ze.]

Originally Posted by JonPR

Great! Sounds like it was a severe set-up issue on the Yamaha (good guitars normally).

Personally - even after 50+ years playing - I find even 12s a little tough (and my guitar is perfectly set-up). I used them for ages, but dropped to 11s (custom lights) around 20 years ago. A slight loss in volume and tone, but worth it for feel. (I discovered much later than my personal hero Bert Jansch used the same custom lights. To rather better effect than me... Bert used Yamahas, btw, but mine is a Guild.)

When i bought my new guitar i bought some Elexier 10s expecting to want to restring it right away but i gave the 12s a whirl and found i loved the volume and tone but i was also trying out a much heavier pick at the same time (a wooden one ) .Not wanting to lose my new sound i'm sticking with the 12s for now but my fingers are screaming mercy .My playing time is reduced due to the pain in my fingertips so i might have to submit and put the lighter strings on .
I would love to be able to spend the money and get an American Guild guitar my friend fell in love with them who is a very good musician but i believe there are two types of Guild guitar one type that is made outside of the states and is not so expensive but it is the American Guild guitar that is renowned ...it has to do with where they are made i am told .

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Ze.

When i bought my new guitar i bought some Elexier 10s expecting to want to restring it right away but i gave the 12s a whirl and found i loved the volume and tone but i was also trying out a much heavier pick at the same time (a wooden one ) .Not wanting to lose my new sound i'm sticking with the 12s for now but my fingers are screaming mercy .My playing time is reduced due to the pain in my fingertips so i might have to submit and put the lighter strings on .
I would love to be able to spend the money and get an American Guild guitar my friend fell in love with them who is a very good musician but i believe there are two types of Guild guitar one type that is made outside of the states and is not so expensive but it is the American Guild guitar that is renowned ...it has to do with where they are made i am told .

Yes, my Guild is an old 1972 model, bought back in 74. I understand vintage ones are well priced, given their quality, though still expensive of course. (I couldn't afford one now!)

I suggest trying 11s on your new guitar, for the sake of your fretting fingers - but you may find you need a lighter or more flexible pick, at least for strumming. (I couldn't stand using a rigid pick for anything but careful jazz lead playing.) I use a dunlop .73 or .88, and even the 88 is a little thick for strumming. I can strum as loud as I would reasonably want to with the 73, or even a 60 - and no risk of string breakage!

But - regarding mercy for those fretting fingers - do make sure your set up is good. Put a capo on fret 1, and see if it feels any easier to hold the strings down. If it does, your nut is too high, and those 12s may be just fine.