aura inguitar and external?

[songman2]

I am waiting on a Martin D35E 50th anniversary which I will be able to try before (maybe) buying. As this has only the one fixed Aura image and preset blend I was wondering if it makes any sense to plug it into an Aura Spectrum DI (giving more images) and the Fishman Platinum Pro EQ (to tweak the sound)? It would go straight into the PA (HK Elements) after that.

Maybe I have not made myself too clear here.

Suppose you have a guitar with already an aura imaging system installed and you are using the output of that system. Can you then plug that output of the guitar into another aura imaging machine (Aura Spectrum DI)? So basically two aura systems in series. Has anyone tried this, or has anyone any reason why this would not work and maybe even produce garbage, or why it should it work?

[songman2]

Sorry for the bump, I added some further explanation to the original message.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by songman2

I am waiting on a Martin D35E 50th anniversary which I will be able to try before (maybe) buying. As this has only the one fixed Aura image and preset blend I was wondering if it makes any sense to plug it into an Aura Spectrum DI (giving more images) and the Fishman Platinum Pro EQ (to tweak the sound)? It would go straight into the PA (HK Elements) after that.

Maybe I have not made myself too clear here.

Suppose you have a guitar with already an aura imaging system installed and you are using the output of that system. Can you then plug that output of the guitar into another aura imaging machine (Aura Spectrum DI)? So basically two aura systems in series. Has anyone tried this, or has anyone any reason why this would not work and maybe even produce garbage, or why it should it work?

I'm not familiar with the Single Aura Image VT system but here is the data for it as applied to the Martin D-35 50th Anniversary:

D-35E 50th Anniversary (Aura VT)
Image: #1
Image Type: Telefunken ELA M 260 Small Diaphragm Condenser
Position: Close

Yes, you could plug the output of an onboard Aura system into an external Aura system but, if the Aura VT system enables it, you would set the onboard system to straight pickup output to feed the external Aura system and choose your Aura Image from that device. If you can't unblend the Aura VT onboard Image then you may not want to feed it to another Aura device as the compounded Aura-Image tone may not sound too good. I've had a couple of versions of onboard Aura over the years, and although I've had external Aura pedals at the same time, I've never used onboard Aura to feed an external Aura device and probably wouldn't ever do it because it would add an unnecessary device to my signal chain. You aren't going to hurt anything by experimenting, though.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by songman2

I am waiting on a Martin D35E 50th anniversary which I will be able to try before (maybe) buying. As this has only the one fixed Aura image and preset blend I was wondering if it makes any sense to plug it into an Aura Spectrum DI (giving more images) and the Fishman Platinum Pro EQ (to tweak the sound)? It would go straight into the PA (HK Elements) after that.

Maybe I have not made myself too clear here.

Suppose you have a guitar with already an aura imaging system installed and you are using the output of that system. Can you then plug that output of the guitar into another aura imaging machine (Aura Spectrum DI)? So basically two aura systems in series. Has anyone tried this, or has anyone any reason why this would not work and maybe even produce garbage, or why it should it work?

The Aura works by (very loosely speaking) comparing the real sound of a guitar as captured by a mic and the sound of a pickup, and creating an algorithm to convert one to another. So it's trying to say" given this input, what should be the output?". If you chain them, you will be sending an output (supposedly the final, desired sound) into the second, which will try to again apply that transformation. But this time, the input will be something different than the transformation was designed to work with. How will it sound? No way to know. It won't blow anything up, and probably won't be "garbage". It could accidentally sound good to you, or it could sound bad. Either way, it won't be using the Aura as intended. There are lots of random things you could do like this, like running two reverbs into each other, or chaining chorus pedals. Give it a try and see. My guess is that 2 Aura's chained will sound kind of washy and distant, and overly resonant. But the only way to be sure is to try it.

[songman2]

Thanks Doug Young and SpruceTop. You both confirm what I was more or less thinking. Well, I guess all I can do is wait for the D35E 50th anniversary to come into the shop and then try things out. Who, knows maybe the single image and locked blend will be just right. If I feel that after all it needs some tweaking then I guess rather than going the second Aura way I should look into something like the LR Baggs Venue or the Fishman Platinum Pro EQ.

Anyway, thanks a lot for the hints and comments.

Cheers, Bob.

[guitaniac]

For what its worth, I had a little concert-sized Cort guitar, equipped with the onboard Aura system, which sounded much better (for my taste) using one of the Spectrum DI's OM sound images.

The Cort had four Aura sound images (created specifically from that model) stored onboard, but I much preferred setting the onboard system to 100% dry pickup (0% sound image) and using about 40% of the OM sound image on the Spectrum DI. I was essentially modeling a larger guitar when I did this. I suspect it would be much more difficult to do the reverse and model a smaller guitar with your dread.

The Fishman folks depise the "modeling" word, but sometimes you can get lucky and model with the Aura SI (SI stands for "sound imaging") system. When the Fishman folks discovered this, they developed their Aura IC (for "image casting") system which makes a slender semi-acoustic guitar sound like a full-bodied acoustic.


As Doug has mentioned, combining your onboard sound image with one of the Spectrum sound images would likely give you a mess. On the other hand, if you set the onboard system to 100% dry pickup (0% sound image), its possible that you'll find a Spectrum sound image which you like better than any of the onboard sound images (with the Spectrum out of the signal chain). That happened for me, but I WAS using a small guitar. The conventional wisdom is that a smaller, stiffer and less resonant guitar tends to make a better modeling platform.

[songman2]

Thanks for the hints guitaniac. I'll have to see what I can do with that particular guitar because from what I read about the specs of it, I will not be able to change the blend setting. If that is the case, I guess indeed I might end up with a mess. If there is nevertheless an easy way to circumvent the locked blend, well that is another story … but I'll have to see when it is here.

Cheers, Bob.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by songman2

Thanks for the hints guitaniac. I'll have to see what I can do with that particular guitar because from what I read about the specs of it, I will not be able to change the blend setting. If that is the case, I guess indeed I might end up with a mess. If there is nevertheless an easy way to circumvent the locked blend, well that is another story … but I'll have to see when it is here.

Cheers, Bob.

There doesn't seem to be an available user guide for the Aura VT, just a little info on the mic and miking technique (close) used to make the lone model-specific sound image.

This may be a special product which Fishman made for Martin, although I can't find a user guide on the Martin site either. I'd make an inquiry to Fishman Tech support. Its hard for me to believe that they made an Aura system with no way to adjust the sound image blend. If that's the case, you'll have to either like what you get (in terms of amplified tone), switch out the pickup or send the guitar back.

Albeit, the tone controls (with sweepable mid) on the Platinum preamp might help get a more pleasing tone. The Spectrum DI (with less versatile tone controls) would be of little use to you if you can't adjust the Aura VT's sound image level.

[songman2]

Yes guitaniac, I too looked for a user guide on the VT system and could find none. My only info comes from this clip where the guitar is presented.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz8euUp70wk

Starts at about 1.20.

Cheers, Bob

[guitaniac]

Thanks for the link, Bob.

If "pre-blended" means what I think it means, you'll have no control over the sound image blend.

I recall Fishman's Joe Barbieri once stating that the optimum sound image blend seems to be around 30% to 40% for most folks. I'd expect the Fishman folks to try and error on the low side, since the guitar is extremely resonant to begin with.

In any event, you'll have some control over your amplified sound with the onboard EQ and the rest of your signal chain. It will probably sound better through a good PA system (with a flat frequency response) than through a guitar amp which has its own frequency response "personality".

[guitaniac]

songman2,

I'm curious to hear how your D35 with the custom onboard Aura system (with a single sound image and a fixed blend) worked out for you. Was the guitar a keeper? Did it amplify well?