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  #31  
Old 06-19-2014, 09:11 AM
jimmybcool jimmybcool is offline
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Originally Posted by billgennaro View Post
I just took a drive over there one day some 5 years ago. As of today, I've purchased three guitars from LC. So think long and hard before you take that trip. It could get expensive!

Bill
Thanks for the warning. And it is appropriate. I do have an impulsive nature as expressed by over 30 guitars at one time.

But I am intrigued by the Olsons and Ryans of the world. I would love to try one. I'd likely be just as happy with an Olson in Indian RW as Brazilian. It's the action and tone I'm looking at.
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  #32  
Old 06-19-2014, 09:15 AM
billgennaro billgennaro is offline
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Which is why, even though I live nearby, I have avoided the place.
Man, you are much more disciplined than I am. When it comes to acoustic guitars I am weak!
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  #33  
Old 06-19-2014, 09:45 AM
LouieAtienza LouieAtienza is offline
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Thanks, Louie. I did plenty of neck resets in my time at Guild in the 1980's, but those were strictly dovetail joinery so I understand the procedure very well. But I can't imagine what a "slipped neck block" type of reset would entail. Any ideas?

Bill
You would remove the binding by the heel at the back, then separate the back from the neck block and side linings. This allows the whole neck/neck block assembly to be adjusted to a better angle. The back is then reglued, and likely need to be trimmed slightly, before the binding is glued back on. The finish is then touched up.

Again, not something for the local big box store tech maybe to perform, but someone with experience in this (Somogyi, Ford). I would think this is a more common repair for classical guitars which are built "as a whole," as there are not many steel string builders now that build in the traditional Spanish style....
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  #34  
Old 06-19-2014, 09:59 AM
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One can also re-plane (and then re-fret...doh) the fingerboard ever so slightly, and this would be a whole lot easier than the slipped neckblock repair. The re-planing would be very subtle, and likely not-noticable under the left hand...
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  #35  
Old 06-19-2014, 10:00 AM
billgennaro billgennaro is offline
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Originally Posted by LouieAtienza View Post
You would remove the binding by the heel at the back, then separate the back from the neck block and side linings. This allows the whole neck/neck block assembly to be adjusted to a better angle. The back is then reglued, and likely need to be trimmed slightly, before the binding is glued back on. The finish is then touched up.

Again, not something for the local big box store tech maybe to perform, but someone with experience in this (Somogyi, Ford). I would think this is a more common repair for classical guitars which are built "as a whole," as there are not many steel string builders now that build in the traditional Spanish style....
Very well said, Louie. It seems you nailed it. I just received this email replay from Ervin:

"If it were a question of actually resetting the neck, then the method I employ is the slipped-headblock technique. This requires routing the upper-bout bindings away and prying the back off in the upper bout area, separating the back from the headlock, re-gluing at a better angle, re-binding the upper bout, and refinishing the area that has been worked. It's a bit of a job. I charge $700 for that . . . but it becomes a bit prohibitive by the time you factor in shipping costs too."

Considering what I paid for the instrument ($15k), anything under $1k would suit me just fine. I'd be very happy with that.

Bill
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  #36  
Old 06-19-2014, 10:04 AM
billgennaro billgennaro is offline
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Originally Posted by Larry Pattis View Post
One can also re-plane (and then re-fret...doh) the fingerboard ever so slightly, and this would be a whole lot easier than the slipped neckblock repair. The re-planing would be very subtle, and likely not-noticable under the left hand...
Also spot on advice. This is what we used to do at Guild when I worked there some 30 years ago. The fretboard of my Mod D has a small, but decent sized, bow in it from the 3rd to the 10th fret, right where an adjustable truss rod would do some good (this guitar has no adjustable truss rod). The guitar plays just fine the way it is but I suspect a fret job coupled with a planing of the fretboard would offer me a bit of added saddle height at the bridge and may be all I need. I mentioned this to Ervin in my reply to his email. I'm interested to hear what he has to say about it.

Bill
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  #37  
Old 06-19-2014, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by billgennaro View Post
Very well said, Louie. It seems you nailed it. I just received this email replay from Ervin:

"If it were a question of actually resetting the neck, then the method I employ is the slipped-headblock technique. This requires routing the upper-bout bindings away and prying the back off in the upper bout area, separating the back from the headlock, re-gluing at a better angle, re-binding the upper bout, and refinishing the area that has been worked. It's a bit of a job. I charge $700 for that . . . but it becomes a bit prohibitive by the time you factor in shipping costs too."

Considering what I paid for the instrument ($15k), anything under $1k would suit me just fine. I'd be very happy with that.

Bill

Less than what I would expect for a job of this magnitude...is likely *well* worth it...although perhaps the below is even better!



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Originally Posted by billgennaro View Post
Also spot on advice. This is what we used to do at Guild when I worked there some 30 years ago. The fretboard of my Mod D has a small, but decent sized, bow in it from the 3rd to the 10th fret, right where an adjustable truss rod would do some good (this guitar has no adjustable truss rod). The guitar plays just fine the way it is but I suspect a fret job coupled with a planing of the fretboard would offer me a bit of added saddle height at the bridge and may be all I need. I mentioned this to Ervin in my reply to his email. I'm interested to hear what he has to say about it.

Bill

Well, there you have it. You could get the relief in better shape *and* create a taller saddle all in one fell swoop. I'd also likely go to Gryphon for this...I've had similar work done on two guitars by them, and the work was perfect.

EDIT: Meanwhile, I hope you're still celebrating this new-to-you guitar...it's truly a winner!!!
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  #38  
Old 06-19-2014, 10:19 AM
billgennaro billgennaro is offline
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Originally Posted by Larry Pattis View Post
Less than what I would expect for a job of this magnitude...is likely *well* worth it...although perhaps the below is even better!

Well, there you have it. You could get the relief in better shape *and* create a taller saddle all in one fell swoop. I'd also likely go to Gryphon for this...I've had similar work done on two guitars by them, and the work was perfect.

EDIT: Meanwhile, I hope you're still celebrating this new-to-you guitar...it's truly a winner!!!
I have an email into Frank Ford and am looking forward to his reply. Thanks again for the tip.

I literally haven't put the guitar down since I purchased it. Even though its about 30 years old it still needs to open up quite a bit as the original owner didn't play the instrument in all that time. I'm looking forward to the next year or so and hearing it bloom even more. If the opening up process is anything like what I experienced with my Traugott then this Mod D is going to be unreal. Its amazing how excited one can get over something like a great guitar. Its one of the best feelings in the world to me. My wife thinks I'm nuts.

Bill
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  #39  
Old 06-19-2014, 10:21 AM
billgennaro billgennaro is offline
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And this message just in from Ervin (replying to my "planing of the fretboard" suggestion):

"Ah-hah! A slight bend in the neck! "Slight" is a very elastic term, and you may have just a bit too much bend. This can be straightened by heat-bending the neck (you heat it up and clamp it into the configuration that you want . . . allowing for springback, of course. When the neck cools you take the clamps off and string it up.)

Sometimes this has to be done more than once, but it's a useful technique that has a high rate of success. You can do this with guitars that have truss rods, as well as those lacking them.

What makes the technique work is that wood -- unlike, say, concrete or glass -- has a natural plasticity that allows for fibers to be realigned. I mean, that's what side-bending is all about, right? And those sides STAY bent!

I can do this, or walk someone through it . . . and it's less than a hundred dollars to do it. It's MUCH less trouble than opening the guitar up and regluing and refinishing. Let me know what you think."
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  #40  
Old 06-19-2014, 10:26 AM
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I've had a couple of tries with guitars on the "heat" treatment.

Failed utterly, and had to do the re-planing, anyway...but each case is a separate experiment.
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  #41  
Old 06-19-2014, 11:15 AM
LouieAtienza LouieAtienza is offline
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Originally Posted by billgennaro View Post
Very well said, Louie. It seems you nailed it. I just received this email replay from Ervin:

"If it were a question of actually resetting the neck, then the method I employ is the slipped-headblock technique. This requires routing the upper-bout bindings away and prying the back off in the upper bout area, separating the back from the headlock, re-gluing at a better angle, re-binding the upper bout, and refinishing the area that has been worked. It's a bit of a job. I charge $700 for that . . . but it becomes a bit prohibitive by the time you factor in shipping costs too."

Considering what I paid for the instrument ($15k), anything under $1k would suit me just fine. I'd be very happy with that.

Bill
$700?! Sign on the dotted line! I can't see how heat-slipping the neck/fingerboard joint or planning the fretboard can be a long term solution to a lifetime instrument. With heating, the wood sometimes stays and sometimes it returns, or sometimes it warps out of whack. With fretboard planing, the angle you effect will only very slightly raise the saddle height. And that's not including if the inlays need to be pulled and reset. In either case, these fixes are short lived.

Since Somogyi has the fretboard relief already shaped into the fretboard, to me the sensible thing would be to do the slipped neck block since it will effect the greatest change in saddle height.
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  #42  
Old 06-19-2014, 12:40 PM
billgennaro billgennaro is offline
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Originally Posted by LouieAtienza View Post
$700?! Sign on the dotted line! I can't see how heat-slipping the neck/fingerboard joint or planning the fretboard can be a long term solution to a lifetime instrument. With heating, the wood sometimes stays and sometimes it returns, or sometimes it warps out of whack. With fretboard planing, the angle you effect will only very slightly raise the saddle height. And that's not including if the inlays need to be pulled and reset. In either case, these fixes are short lived.

Since Somogyi has the fretboard relief already shaped into the fretboard, to me the sensible thing would be to do the slipped neck block since it will effect the greatest change in saddle height.
I tend to agree with you. But I'll leave it up to either Ervin or Frank Ford. I'll let them know that I want this to last me for another 30 years. I don't mind paying the $700 for that kind of work. I'd like the instrument to be perfect.

Bill
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  #43  
Old 06-24-2014, 02:11 AM
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Originally Posted by billgennaro View Post
If the opening up process is anything like what I experienced with my Traugott then this Mod D is going to be unreal. Its amazing how excited one can get over something like a great guitar. Its one of the best feelings in the world to me.
Have been away so late to this party Bill; congratulations on the new addition! Looks like an awful lot of guitar for the outlay - that BRW is some of the very best I've ever seen and I'll bet it sounds as good as it looks.

Yes - I was just saying to my wife a few months ago that I honestly can't think of anything more exciting than a new guitar (I must be getting old - I wouldn't always have said that!). The fact is, it's great getting new instruments which accounts, I think, for the fact that some people flip great guitars - the thrill is the chase.

I'll be real interested to hear of your thoughts re the Traugott - two of the very best builders out there but Bordeaux vs. Burgundy.

Congrats again.

Cheers,
Steve
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  #44  
Old 06-24-2014, 10:08 AM
CKme CKme is offline
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Great thread!
I've been meaning to ask Ervin what it would entail getting a neck set done on one of his guitars and this thread has pretty much answered everything.
Bill, hope you enjoy your guitar as much as I do.
It's a real beauty and Ervin makes incredible guitars.
My 2000 12 fret 000 still surprises me every time it's turn arrives on rotation.
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  #45  
Old 06-24-2014, 12:11 PM
billgennaro billgennaro is offline
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Great thread!
I've been meaning to ask Ervin what it would entail getting a neck set done on one of his guitars and this thread has pretty much answered everything.
Bill, hope you enjoy your guitar as much as I do.
It's a real beauty and Ervin makes incredible guitars.
My 2000 12 fret 000 still surprises me every time it's turn arrives on rotation.
Now that's an instrument I'd like to try. Very cool!
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