Which Luthier can Reset my Epoxy glued Vintage Martin Neck?

dumbeat · #1 11-12-2015, 10:16 AM

Hi-

I recently bought a '61 Martin 0-18 that had the neck reset and a few other repairs done with EPOXY(!!) oh, well... I did not know it at the time of purchase so here we go.. my bad, i should never have touched it i suppose...

At any event, it needs a neck reset as the neck angle is out of whack and it looks like a bridge shave was already performed once (plus i do not want to go the shaved bride route anyway).

Who of the luthiers is willing to reset a neck that was already reset once with Epoxy?

fazool · #2 11-12-2015, 11:10 AM

This is not what you want to hear.......

I had a 1977 Yamaha and, back then, they had the "brilliant" idea to epoxy their necks for strength (and probably manufacturing reasons). I was approaching the need for a neck reset and did a lot of research.

The consensus was that a neck reset is not possible. The epoxy cannot be released non-destructively. For that (cheap) guitar line, some folks devised a replacement method and, literally, sawed the neck off and bolted a new neck on.

Sorry to say but you are likely stuck with a guitar that was permanently compromised by an incompetent repair.

Sorry for the bad news. I've been there (on a cheaper scale).

Halcyon/Tinker · #3 11-12-2015, 11:18 AM

I'm pretty sure there's a way to saw the old neck off and convert the same neck to a bolt on. It's sad that the epoxy happened in the first place, but perhaps all is not lost. Probably very doable for some of the repair champs like Frank Ford or John Arnold. No idea on cost though, or what a 61 Martin's value is.

redir · #4 11-12-2015, 11:27 AM

I've done the saw of bolt on conversion many times and it works quite well. In this case though a new neck might be a better alternative. I would probably still try and steam the old one off. Epoxy will still come apart under heat but you have to consider what other damage may occur in doing so. Otherwise sawing it off and re-cutting the dovetail for a new neck or even a vintage one if you are so lucky to find one should work.

dumbeat · #5 11-12-2015, 11:32 AM

A new neck or a bolt on conversion is not on the table at the moment- it might become the solution though at some point...

I still wanna pursue as much info as i can on the possibility of releasing this one from the glue and doing it properly. I love the tone of this instrument and rather keep it the way it was meant to be...

If all else fails i might resort to the 2 options mentioned or not change a thing and only chord in first position..

Neil K Walk · #6 11-12-2015, 12:06 PM

Epoxy on a vintage Martin. What heresy.

Sorry to say but the wood will fail before the epoxy does.

Frank Ford · #7 11-12-2015, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dumbeat

. . . a '61 Martin 0-18 that had the neck reset and a few other repairs done with EPOXY. . .

What POSITIVE evidence do you have that the neck was removed and dovetail reglued with epoxy? Are you assuming that was done by inference by observing other questionable repair on this guitar?

dumbeat · #8 11-12-2015, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Ford

What POSITIVE evidence do you have that the neck was removed and dovetail reglued with epoxy? Are you assuming that was done by inference by observing other questionable repair on this guitar?

Frank- So glads you are here!

Yes, I am basing it on the fact that other repairs were done with epoxy in the guitar body, and that i can see slight white color around the joints of the neck and bridge.

I did take her to Retrofret here in NY for inspection, and they said they "suspect" its epoxy by mere eye sight and by the fact that other, internal body work was using epoxy, and in a sloppy way on top...;(.
They did not investigate it thoroughly though.

What signes can i look for? I may be in a good place if if its not epoxy....

Howard Klepper · #9 11-12-2015, 12:33 PM

Most epoxies, including the ones from the hardware store that would likely have been used (if indeed it is epoxy), can be separated with heat and patience. Steam is hot enough. Some of the other joints around the neck block may separate, but they can be reset.

The skills needed for this are not unique. Have any good repair shops refused to work on it?

Ned Milburn · #10 11-12-2015, 12:43 PM

You have some quality comments already. If the neck/body seem had glue added to it, it is not too much trouble to use a very thin kerf japanese style saw to separate the heel from sides (if needed at all). The fingerboard tongue is easy enough to remove (like Howard stated, heat is your friend), and with a jig hand made or similar to the Stew Mac jig, a Martin neck should be removable without too much unwanted trouble.

Frank Ford · #11 11-12-2015, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dumbeat

Frank- So glads you are here!

Yes, I am basing it on the fact that other repairs were done with epoxy . . .

What signes can i look for? I may be in a good place if if its not epoxy....

The basic reality is that we typically find out about the epoxy by trying to remove the neck in the usual manner. IF the dovetail is fully potted in epoxy, removal by steaming is not likely to be practical because there won't be clearance at the end of the dovetail to allow for easy steam access. Some of us are working on other techniques and tools to deliver heat to the joint (small electric cartridge heaters, for example) that might prove more effective.

But, I feel confident in predicting that the dovetail is not set in with epoxy - that's a very rare situation, probably because the removal of the neck requires some sophistication and knowledge of complex guitar repair, and repairers who can take the neck out neatly are generally wise enough not to use epoxy to reglue it.

So, it may be perfectly reasonable to proceed with the repair!

dumbeat · #12 11-12-2015, 01:35 PM

Lots of good info and encouragement. Thanks!
Retrofret did not show extreme desire to take up the job.
Looks like a real experienced luthier should take it. Anyone else in NY?

Frank Ford · #13 11-12-2015, 01:53 PM

Alex Glasser worked in our repair shop, and it was a dark day when he told me he was leaving to go "back home" to NY. He's a very enthusiastic and talented luthier guy and I'm sure he can fix you up:

IRON HORSE INSTRUMENTS

#14 11-12-2015, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dumbeat

...I did take her to Retrofret here in NY...

While I've never had them do work for me (don't live there) both Retrofret and Tom Crandall have good reputations for working on vintage guitars, even problem guitars. Being local, I'd start there.

Don't saw the neck off a Martin....

Howard Klepper · #15 11-12-2015, 02:08 PM

If the gap at the end of the neck is filled with epoxy (why would it be?), you can remove the fretboard extension and create space for a heat source by drilling the epoxy out. Not the preferred method, but not a disaster either--if the fretboard is cut a couple of frets back from the body joint, the joint will not be weakened.

Hold off on the saws. And not being keen on getting the job is not a refusal to do the work. You might try Evan Stark at New York Guitar Repair.