Weissernborn / Dobro question.

[royd]

Originally Posted by blue

Dobro G that most country players use is different than the G the rest of the world uses

Weissenborns are hawaiian instruments. The first hawaiian standard lap tuning was the same G tuning used by the blues guys.

In general when folks in the guitar world say "Open G", everybody but the Dobro folks go DGDGBD, Taking the 6th, 5th and 1st down one step from standard tuning.

The OP specifically asked whether Dobro techniques would translate. When folk began talking about a G tuning, I assumed they were talking about a Dobro G tuning given the context. I would guess that the OP did as well. That was what I was responding to... that that voicing would be too much tension for a Weisenborn.

[blue]

Originally Posted by royd

The OP specifically asked whether Dobro techniques would translate. When folk began talking about a G tuning, I assumed they were talking about a Dobro G tuning given the context. I would guess that the OP did as well. That was what I was responding to... that that voicing would be too much tension for a Weisenborn.

Yup. And I fell into a similar trap and said something goofy. I was responding to Dobro Techniques. Like slants, artificial harmonics, etc. Never crossed my mind that a Weiss would be tuned to dobro G. I'm a hawaiian player primarily, though I dabble in blues and "dobro" even though I play a National Squareneck.

[syrynx]

Midge, you can absolutely use any steel guitar techniques on a Weissenborn-style guitar, and you can absolutely use the G B D G B D tuning commonly used by bluegrass Dobro=style players, as long as you use appropriate string gauges.

From the Gold Tone W-SM (Weissenborn® SM) page:

Because of its construction, care must be given to the correct tuning and string gauges to avoid bridge, bracing and neck problems. The strings supplied (.014, .018, .026w, .034w, .044w, .056w) allow G (DGDGBD), D (DADF#AD) and similar tunings. Your Weissenborn will not tolerate any additional excessive tension (such as E tuning (EBEG#BE), Dobro G tuning (GBDGBD or heavier) and will void the warranty. The string tension should be no more than 165lbs at pitch. There are several online string tension calculators available such as this one to determine correct string gauges for any desired tuning.

From the calculator linked in that quote, it's easy to verify that on a Gold Tone Weiss-style instrument, the tension limit can be respected in G B D G B D using five of the six strings supplied on the guitar, by removing the sixth string, removing the fifth string and reinstalling it as the sixth string, and installing a new .038 fifth string.

I wouldn't necessarily recommend that you do this. Since your current primary interest for the instrument is country blues, I think it likely that you'll find that the D and low-bass G (D G D G B D) tunings traditionally used for country blues will sound better with the string gauges supplied.

Since you specifically mention that you're looking for books, I think you'd find THE DOBRO BOOK by Stacy Phillips to be helpful whether or not you reconfigure your guitar. In addition to the G B D G B D tuning, it has sections devoted to D G D G B D and D A D F# A D, and a music theory appendix which IMO is worth the price of the book by itself. I've owned my copy since the early '80s. Looking through the book again recently, I realized that the Internet and YouTube have made the book even more valuable than it was when it came out in 1977, because examples of the work of many of the players mentioned and pictured are now only a few mouse clicks away.

If your Internet connection and temperament permit, I urge you to take advantage of the wealth of material available for free. This clip from Martin Harley offers a very good start on steel guitar basics and D tuning.



This partial lesson from Mary Flower is also in D. I strongly concur with her cautions about posture.



Here's a clip showing some basics and some tricks in D G D G B D.



Martin Harley again, showing some of what's possible in D minor tuning (simply dropping the third string a semitone, yielding D A D F A D).



If these clips move too fast for you at first, you can come back to them later. As tdq recommended earlier, Troy Brenningmeyer's lessons may be a good starting place. They're certainly not too fast!

Originally Posted by blue

Hawaiian Lap Guitarist: "A musician who plays guitar in the lap style and comes up with his own tunings"

Yes, exactly. I started attempting to play country blues in D and low bass G tunings more than 40 years ago. It was my good fortune to take lessons from Herb Remington, who introduced me to Western Swing and Hawai'ian music in the A6 tuning he used (and still uses), and I stuck with A6 through my gigging years. Now that arthritis has rendered conventional fretting more painful than pleasurable for me, I'm playing solo unaccompanied lap steel on three acoustic flattops with extension nuts:

- A Martin 0-15, which I use in D A D F# A D, D A D F A D, and D A D F A C.

= An Ovation Balladeer, which I keep in Bb F Bb F Bb D (the same intervals as the tuning Silly Moustache uses on his Weiss, but down a full step)

- A Harmony H165 in a reentrant F7: F C Eb F A C, with the fifth string tuned a fourth below the sixth string. This tuning probably wouldn't make sense for anyone else on the planet. But it lets me make music I've never heard from anyone else, and I find it very satisfying.

As Hobo_King and blue have pointed out, it's all steel guitar playing. Any of us can learn from any other steel player, and I do so quite shamelessly.

[DiabloRouge]

Thanks so much all of you who took the time to answer my questions. I truly appreciate all your input. I have my sights on an all mahogany Weiss from Anderwood here in England, it's in my budget range and comes with a hardcase.
Hope to get it real soon.
Thanks again

[syrynx]

Midge, at the double risk of overwhelming you with TMI and of telling you things you already know...

Some of my favorite Weissenborn players live and work in England. I'd see any of these in a heartbeat if I had the chance, but you're more likely to have the chance.

I neglected to include Martin Harley's Web site in my previous post.

Tom Doughty has been a huge inspiration to me in finding ways to play despite my arthritis. He has overcome crippling spinal injuries to develop a unique acoustic lap steel voice. He also has one of the world's largest collections of acoustic lap steels, including an original Weissenborn Style 1 and a Martin 00-40H-- possibly the only one in the world that hasn't been converted for standard fretted guitar playing.



Tom Doughty's YouTube channel includes dozens of clips of his playing. He also offers lessons via Skype.

Kevin Brown has also been a major inspiration for me.



The Shackdusters YouTube Channel shows Kevin playing half a dozen tunes on Weissenborn.

T. J. Owusu opened my ears with this clip.

[TheDude]

Originally Posted by DiabloRouge

I am hoping to get a Weissernborn in the next month and have had absolutely no joy in finding any tuition books for the instrument. Excuse my ignorance but would Dobro techniques transfer easily to the Weissenborn?

Thanks for any advice guys.

Midge

Yes, techniques are the same. I use a lighter weight Stevens steel on the Weissenborn and a shorter thumb pick. Also, you don't want to tune the Weissenborn in any thing above D do to its light construction. A square neck Resonator can handle tunings in G.