Searching for my first Amp

Pualee · #1 01-28-2014, 07:29 AM

So I had a previous thread here: http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...fier+discounts

I am tring to match a nice combo amp with a MIM Telecaster.

I have finally dedicated a few hours into testing them. I want a class A all tube amp around $300, and it has to have the output to drive an external cabinet in the future.

I wanted to try VOX AC4TV. I found one on Craigslist for what I consider a good price. I tried one at the store yesterday and found it very disappointing. It felt thin, and not much more exciting than the $15 practice amp we already have. I never really heard the breakup expected at the low wattage - or maybe I did and just didn't notice or like it. There was also a blue version (without the variable watt output - but it did have a gain, treble, and bass knob). I found that one more interesting, but still not very desirable.

At the store I saw a Randall RVC 5 watt. I liked it much more. It sounded full and was much more pleasant of the two, but it is still not what I want.

My son tried a Fender Mustang 1. He loved it, and personally, for the price I would take it over the other two amps. I liked it too (but still not the sound I want). I will probably buy it for him while I search for mine. He loves the modeling amps.

Next up, I am headed to another store to try a VHT Special 6. I have also learned of a VHT Special 6 Ultra which looks very interesting, but is above my price point (but afordable none the less). I have never seen these on craigslist, even though there is a local dealer. I guess that means the buyers love them and never resell them?

What else should I look for? I have heard suggestions that the tubes in these lower priced amps are cheap and they sound better with different tubes... I cannot afford to gamble though, so it has to sound nice out of the box. I will likely tinker with the speaker and tubes in the future, but I have to love it when I try it (so I cannot order without testing it).

The sound I have in my head is very mellow and warm. I don't know what to compare it too, but that is the best I can describe it.

Edit:

Will the tubes start to sound different if they are played longer amounts of time? Is there a warm up period?

I tried some more expensive amps too - like Blues Jr and even some big Vox boxes. I don't seem to find amazing amounts of difference between them. They are all different, but not in a huge way.

imwjl · #2 01-28-2014, 09:12 AM

Make sure you're aware of the effect and ultimate tone you get when the amp has a spring reverb, and how a larger speaker can make a difference.

Don't obsess on it being class A or a particular watt rating as much as what your ears like.

Be aware that a good tube amp has or adds a dynamic described as touch sensitivity. I don't find many of the inexpensive small and no reverb amps have that so much or even as much as a small amp like the Yamaha THR series.

I've fooled with tubes, speakers, and amateur amp building to the extent I think some modifications people do are like the dumb ***** who adds a fart can and wheels worth more than their car. There's no way I'd waste the time, labor, money spending on a $300 amp when as an example you could get a used Princeton or Deluxe. Think about it. Those have sold for generations while amp makers poop out another cheap 5 watt thing with each trade show.

Keep this in mind. A boost or the right OD pedal will make a great clean amp hairy or dirty. Try to make one of the cheap one trick ponies sound good clean - I doubt it will happen.

Next, many of the small inexpensive low watt tube amps that are cheap become even cheaper on craigslist or at a used shop because most are one trick ponies and generally craptacular compared to amp models that have been on the market for many years, decades or generations.

Bottom line: YMMV but I wished somebody called me a dumb ***** for buying and selling 5 other amps before I got a Princeton Reverb and a 4 knob pedal that makes it do anything.

Have fun shopping.

The Old Gaffer · #3 01-28-2014, 09:27 AM

I would take a serious look at the new Fender 1968 Custom Deluxe Reverb! Or the 1968 Custom Princeton Reverb.

imwjl · #4 01-28-2014, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Old Gaffer

I would take a serious look at the new Fender 1968 Custom Deluxe Reverb! Or the 1968 Custom Princeton Reverb.

Yes to that but they're way above the stated budget. Time and their arrival have put the black face Princetons closer to the budget.

My PRRI got better as the speaker got used so I would make the argument a used one would have that speaker more loose and exactly where I paid extra ordering Weber for a different amp.

It is really hard to know in a web forum what a different person really wants or likes but I think my theory on considering the amp models that have been popular for many years to many decades is worthy.

moon · #5 01-28-2014, 11:39 AM

How about this?

muscmp · #6 01-28-2014, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

How about this?

moon: link doesn't seem to work, at least for me.

edit: seems like it just takes a long time to load and then plays partially, then quits.

play music!

moon · #7 01-28-2014, 02:04 PM

It's just a short sample to show some champy grind. As usual, I'm lurking around trying to hook unsuspecting posters into building their own..

For me, that turned out to be a cheap way to get a great little amp (5F1 Champ).

Pualee · #8 01-28-2014, 02:31 PM

So, I thought I was getting the big picture and narrowing things down, but now it seems I only had a small piece of the puzzle...

Now I am thoroughly confused

So what criteria should I use to find my amp? I really like everything from mellow blues to bright country and worship/praise music. I need versatility and thought I could pull that off with my choices above.

I can get the bright snappy twang no problem (telecaster after all), but have not found a satisfying warm and mellow sound yet.

----

I am trying to categorize things so I can narrow down my search, there are just too many amps to try them all.

rockabilly69 · #9 01-28-2014, 02:54 PM

Used Princeton Reverb with an overdrive pedal would be a ridiculously versatile amp. Save your money so your budget doesn't limit your amp
choice!

SausageCreature · #10 01-28-2014, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pualee

I can get the bright snappy twang no problem (telecaster after all), but have not found a satisfying warm and mellow sound yet.

That's what the neck pickup is for

Or at least mine sounds plenty warm and mellow through a Blues Jr.

AcoustiKineses · #11 01-28-2014, 03:53 PM

$300 tube amp, in my experience you are going to have a bad time. Look at a a Roland Cube.

Raymond Lin · #12 01-28-2014, 03:58 PM

Try this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWjUVQbHLnM

Just watch the video and before writing it off....

moon · #13 01-28-2014, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pualee

I am trying to categorize things so I can narrow down my search, there are just too many amps to try them all.

One of the first things to figure out is at what volume do you want to project clean and overdriven tones? A tube amp starts to break up at a certain point on the gain dial, and then all hell breaks loose (in a good way) when you crank it up louder.

If a toneful little 5-watter will do the job, you might like a 5F1 champ. The bad news, for $300, you'll have to build it yourself (it's not actually difficult) and your budget will only cover the head. It's got warm cleans with a little sparkle round the edges and a stinging, raunchy overdrive (the clip above was my own amp helped along with an Xotic RC Booster - that's about as gainy as it can get).

Tweeds are amazing, responsive, touch-sensitive amps. The 5E3 Deluxe is another great DIY project and one of the best guitar amps of all time.

Raymond Lin · #14 01-28-2014, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

One of the first things to figure out is at what volume do you want to project clean and overdriven tones? A tube amp starts to break up at a certain point on the gain dial, and then all hell breaks loose (in a good way) when you crank it up louder.

If a toneful little 5-watter will do the job, you might like a 5F1 champ. The bad news, for $300, you'll have to build it yourself (it's not actually difficult) and your budget will only cover the head. It's got warm cleans with a little sparkle round the edges and a stinging, raunchy overdrive (the clip above was my own amp helped along with an Xotic RC Booster - that's about as gainy as it can get).

Tweeds are amazing, responsive, touch-sensitive amps. The 5E3 Deluxe is another great DIY project and one of the best guitar amps of all time.

A 5 watt Tube amp needs to be deafening before it really opens up to sound good. Something like a 1 Watt - Blackstar HT-1R would be sufficient for $300.

Steve DeRosa · #15 01-28-2014, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pualee

...I am trying to match a nice combo amp with a MIM Telecaster...I want a class A all tube amp around $300, and it has to have the output to drive an external cabinet in the future...I have heard suggestions that the tubes in these lower priced amps are cheap and they sound better with different tubes...I cannot afford to gamble though, so it has to sound nice out of the box. I will likely tinker with the speaker and tubes in the future, but I have to love it when I try it (so I cannot order without testing it)...Will the tubes start to sound different if they are played longer amounts of time? Is there a warm up period?

If you can swing a few extra bucks, check out one of these at your local GC:

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Bugera-V...92-i1470775.gc

Very responsive to the low-tech DIY tweaks you mention, but for the price also an unbeatable practice/small-gig amp right out of the box (I swear by mine, BTW) - easily drives a 4X12" cab, and the triode option does a nice job of mellowing out the typical EL84 brashness. There's also this one in the same price range:

http://www.proaudioland.com/peavey-windsor-studio.html

I generally give my tube amps at least a ten-minute warm-up (on standby) before playing - gives the tubes a chance to settle in before hitting them with full voltage (one of the biggest tube killers in non-standby equipped amps); maybe it's the fact that I grew up in the heyday of tube-driven home entertainment equipment - turning on the TV to warm up 5-10 minutes before your favorite show began was standard procedure well into the 1960's - but unlike many uninitiated/younger players I'm willing to be a little patient to get the tone I'm after. As far as tube life is concerned, that's a highly variable proposition depending on initial tube quality, internal amp voltages/bias current, how long/hard your amp is played, and available ventilation, just to name a few: the iconic Beatle-era Vox AC30 Top Boost eats most power tubes like Cracker Jack, while it's not unheard of for Linden-era Ampegs to still have their OEM tubes a half-century later. Unless you're buying a hand-built boutique amp (or building one yourself) it's undoubtedly going to come with the cheap MIC stuff - so like it or not, you will be replacing them in the foreseeable future, in the name of tone and/or longevity...