Questions about the rebuild of the top of a vintage Levin

Henning · #1 10-18-2023, 02:20 PM

Hello, this is the top of a vintage Levin steel string guitar. As you can see it is fan braced. Made in the late 1940s. But I intend to have steel strings on it. The top is slightly concave and also has a bulge below the bridge. If you please would like to have a look from the bottom, in parallel with the strings, this is the way the top looks.
I suppose, the top needs to be rebraced if a good result is expected to be reached. What is your opinion, please?
The thickness of the top is about 3,7 mm. So I take the guess it ought to be thinned to perhaps somewhere around 3,0 mm, at least the lower bout of it. As well, a bridge plate should be added. I am thankful for your point of view.
Regards

runamuck · #2 10-18-2023, 06:22 PM

Your links don't work for me.

Fathand · #3 10-19-2023, 05:57 AM

Your links require signing into something called Dropbox?

Henning · #4 10-19-2023, 07:32 AM

Thank you

I beg your pardon. Please try again:

Link to bracing of the top

Link to photo of the side view of the top

Link to lower bout view of the top

runamuck · #5 10-19-2023, 07:54 AM

My point of view is that your time and effort would be better spent building a completely new top, braced and thicknessed appropriately for a steel string.

Fathand · #6 10-19-2023, 08:01 AM

The addition of a bridge plate won't make much difference unless you are switching to a pin bridge? Would you also be switching to X bracing? In that case, thinning the top to 2.5-3mm would likely work. It might be simpler to build a whole new top?

Have you considered adding a trapeze tailpiece as a simple solution which would retain most of the originality of the guitar and is easily undone? This would create down pressure instead of tension on the bridge.

JonWint · #7 10-19-2023, 09:11 AM

If it were mine, I'd try to reuse the existing top while protecting its existing finish. This can be done by:

Remove all bracing.

Realign the displaced crack. "Round" the rosette.

Glue all cracks with waterproof glue.

Lightly steam unfinished side of top and clamp flat. Needs to be flat enough to allow thicknessing by planing or drum sanding. Longitudinal "S" curve is insignificant; transverse belly should be reducible by removing bracing and flattening.

X-brace for steel, add bridge plate, reassemble.

Henning · #8 10-19-2023, 11:02 AM

Thanks for your replies. I've tried to realign the crack but found it better to set in a splint. The sides and back seems to have altered to the new shape. Perhaps that is a "not-to-do" philosophy?
My first idea was to keep the original bracing. But after seeing a side view pic of how a top shall be, i started to consider to change the bracing.
In my mind a Martin style bridge wouldn't suit this guitar aesthetically. The original bridge is a distorted half classic look a like kind, in rosewood. There is quite an ugly mark in the top where the bridge was.

Henning · #9 10-21-2023, 02:16 AM

Hi, do you think it would be hard work to scrape the top 0,7 mm. I only have small scrapers, about 1"*2", please?

Fathand · #10 10-21-2023, 05:26 AM

Scrapers are cheap. You could buy a larger one?https://www.amazon.com/DEF-Manganese...%2C212&sr=8-15

Henning · #11 10-21-2023, 12:59 PM

Thank you,

Regards

RogerHaggstrom · #12 10-26-2023, 02:00 AM

This was made for nylon strings, the top is deformed from using steel strings. At the time, there was a belief that you could make a guitar that works for both nylon- and steel strings. This is not possible, the nylon-strung and steel stringed guitar are two different instruments. The tuners on this may have thin posts and not the thick ones used on nylon-stringed guitars, I have seen both variants.

Most Levin from that period have a top that is about 0.5 mm too thick. A sturdy ladder bracing or a very light X-bracing can replace the fan bracing for steel strings.

As a nylon-strung guitar, the fretboard is wide and has a steep angle pointing down to the bottom of the bridge. A neck reset is needed for steel strings.

A string pin bridge with the same footprint as the old bridge can replace the string-through bridge. Or the original bridge can be heavily modified to a pin bridge by gluing a wood patch in a milled-out space behind the original wood around the saddle ditch, that original wood acts like a stopper for the new patch.

The neck probably does not have a real dovetail and is only held by the glue. I always put a straight wood screw with sharp and high threads into the butt-end of the neck from the inside through the neck block.

Check out my site www.gammelgura.se for a lot of Levin's.