Is this a good pickup sound?

[Monsum]

Finally after years of searching, I purchased a guitar which every time I play I know it's the one, with great tone and excellent playability - my Gibson Hummingbird TV. As many of you I wanted it to sound natural amplified. Again, years of experimenting with different pickups and equipment in previous guitars and I decided to install K&K pure mini in it. Bought the best (by the word of many) preamp - the Red Eye. And cut the long story short, I'm not very happy with what I get out of Hummingbird/K&K/Red Eye combination. I'm aware that each of these 'ingredients' separately is one of the best in its class but I still feel like I've failed...(I'm not giving up BTW)

So here an audio clip of my two guitars (one of them is the Gibson, I'm not disclosing yet which one it is), both have K&K pickups, going through the Red Eye preamp (set flat) straight into an audio interface. No precessing applied other than normalization.

Do you think it's a good pickup sound (and I should just stop moaning and being paranoid about it)? Which guitar do you prefer (which do you think is the Gibson)?
What should I try next to improve the sound? I'm only interested in pickups sound good when (hard) strummed.

[DenverSteve]

The only comment I can make is that I prefer the second recording. I can't speak to the guitar or pickup. If you are using the identical recording set up, I prefer the second all around. However, did you put new strings on both and use the exact set up with both?

[HHP]

The second sample sounded more quacky to me while the first was a warmer and, to me, more natural sound.

[Howard Emerson]

Originally Posted by Monsum

Finally after years of searching, I purchased a guitar which every time I play I know it's the one, with great tone and excellent playability - my Gibson Hummingbird TV. As many of you I wanted it to sound natural amplified. Again, years of experimenting with different pickups and equipment in previous guitars and I decided to install K&K pure mini in it. Bought the best (by the word of many) preamp - the Red Eye. And cut the long story short, I'm not very happy with what I get out of Hummingbird/K&K/Red Eye combination. I'm aware that each of these 'ingredients' separately is one of the best in its class but I still feel like I've failed...(I'm not giving up BTW)

So here an audio clip of my two guitars (one of them is the Gibson, I'm not disclosing yet which one it is), both have K&K pickups, going through the Red Eye preamp (set flat) straight into an audio interface. No precessing applied other than normalization.

Do you think it's a good pickup sound (and I should just stop moaning and being paranoid about it)? Which guitar do you prefer (which do you think is the Gibson)?
What should I try next to improve the sound? I'm only interested in pickups sound good when (hard) strummed.

I don't think either of them sound close to natural, but they are both fairly 'smooth' in that neither has any quacky harshness to them

The first is very scooped in the mid, and the second is not.

The first is easier to listen to from the start, and the second one seems very lacking from the start. I'm listening with Sony headphones for context.

Going back and forth from clip to clip tells me that a better sound could be had on either one, but your particular preamp doesn't have much in the way of EQ, correct? Tonally you can only change the treble?

The only way you're ever going to get closer to 'natural' sound is by involving a microphone in one way or another.

You can play into one, or you can hop on the Tone-Dexter bandwagon which has a lot of very historically fussy people saying superlative things.

Getting an amplified sound that you find appealing is a journey, so priorities count heavily. To give you an idea of where I come from, here's a single sound board transducer direct into a Fishman amp.

https://youtu.be/oSXj9u8-l6M

Regards,
Howard Emerson

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by Monsum

So here an audio clip of my two guitars (one of them is the Gibson, I'm not disclosing yet which one it is), both have K&K pickups, going through the Red Eye preamp (set flat) straight into an audio interface. No precessing applied other than normalization.]

For what it's worth, I prefer the first one.

What is your ultimate goal for this plugged in sound?

When I'm pondering pickups I like to think of how they will sound in "the real world." Meaning through my PA system out in the room. Most of the time I think people use pickups to play live and mics to record.

What is the final delivery method of your sound to your audience? Amp, PA system? And are you happy with that tone?

That would be much more important to me than how a direct recording of a pickup sounds.

Another consideration for me is how the guitar tone blends with my vocals. Plugged in goals could differ from player to player depending on what they do. I'm mostly a singer who happens to play the guitar. My plugged in tone needs are probably different from that of a finger style instrumentalist.

Matt

[Chriscom]

Those are radically different sounds--they're both the same pickup? Sorry if I'm reading too fast.

To my ear the first is dramatically better--much more natural, much more air, much more acoustic-y. That's a pretty good sound (though as another said it may be overly thin on the mids, but hey EQ). The second instantly identifies as Guitar Pickup and not to make you sad but man, hate that sound.

Not a Gibson guy so, danged if I know.

[Petty1818]

Pickups will never sound that great through a direct recording. With that said, I prefer the first clip but I agree with some posts above, the pickups do not sound the same at all. The second one definitely has that warm, K&K type of tone but the first sounds like a mic (I am listening on lap top speakers), that's just a bit too far away producing a thinner tone. I could easily work with both clips. The first needs more bottom end and the second needs more high end.

[rickvox1]

I like the sound of the first and to me it sounds like a Gibson BUT I have heard Gibsons with the anthem pickup system that sound like the second depends how good the sound man is.

[Monsum]

Thanks everyone for the comments.

Originally Posted by DenverSteve

The only comment I can make is that I prefer the second recording. I can't speak to the guitar or pickup. If you are using the identical recording set up, I prefer the second all around. However, did you put new strings on both and use the exact set up with both?

Both clips were recorded exactly the same way, no EQ, the same preamp and its settings. Strings on the first guitar are fairly new and a bit older on the second one.

Originally Posted by HHP

The second sample sounded more quacky to me while the first was a warmer and, to me, more natural sound.

That's how I perceive it too, too much 'quack' in the second one.

Originally Posted by Howard Emerson

Going back and forth from clip to clip tells me that a better sound could be had on either one, but your particular preamp doesn't have much in the way of EQ, correct? Tonally you can only change the treble?
The only way you're ever going to get closer to 'natural' sound is by involving a microphone in one way or another.
You can play into one, or you can hop on the Tone-Dexter bandwagon which has a lot of very historically fussy people saying superlative things.
Getting an amplified sound that you find appealing is a journey, so priorities count heavily. To give you an idea of where I come from, here's a single sound board transducer direct into a Fishman amp.

Yes, the Red Eye has only treble control. My guitars sound better if the treble is slightly turned up but for the test I wanted to achieve as raw pickup sound as possible.
I'm interested in the Tonedexter but I'm also a bit sceptical about it. Firstly it's a new thing and everybody seem to be excited but from the audio demos of regular guys it sounds like miss and hit. Secondly I use IR technology in my DAW Logic Pro and from my experience it gets closer to a mic'ed sound but also sounds very processed. Some people get better sound with just a piezo pickup (e.g. Fishman Matrix) or like you a single transducer pickup.
I watched your video clips in another thread and both, sound and playing are impressive.

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

When I'm pondering pickups I like to think of how they will sound in "the real world." Meaning through my PA system out in the room. Most of the time I think people use pickups to play live and mics to record.
What is the final delivery method of your sound to your audience? Amp, PA system? And are you happy with that tone?

I agree that what really matters here is how they sound through PA not in a recording, but a good raw pickup sound should result in a better live sound.
I play through a mixer (recently I bought Zoom Livetrak l-12) into a QSC12 speaker. I use the mixer EQ and the sound is better than you can hear it in these audio clips. But I believe I can make it sound more natural because I heard other guys with a great tone using even less expensive equipment.

Originally Posted by Chriscom

Those are radically different sounds--they're both the same pickup? Sorry if I'm reading too fast.
To my ear the first is dramatically better--much more natural, much more air, much more acoustic-y. That's a pretty good sound (though as another said it may be overly thin on the mids, but hey EQ). The second instantly identifies as Guitar Pickup and not to make you sad but man, hate that sound

Yes, they are the same pickups, installed but the same luthier in two different guitars.
I start to hate that sound too (I mean the second clip)
Not because it's rubbish or broken but because my expectations here so high for such fine equipment used.

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Pickups will never sound that great through a direct recording. With that said, I prefer the first clip but I agree with some posts above, the pickups do not sound the same at all. The second one definitely has that warm, K&K type of tone but the first sounds like a mic (I am listening on lap top speakers), that's just a bit too far away producing a thinner tone. I could easily work with both clips. The first needs more bottom end and the second needs more high end.

I know that both are workable sounds but one thing I learnt is to get the source as good as possible and do as little tweaking as you can get away with.

Originally Posted by rickvox1

I like the sound of the first and to me it sounds like a Gibson BUT I have heard Gibsons with the anthem pickup system that sound like the second depends how good the sound man is.

Looks like majority prefer the first recording, so do I.
Unfortunately for me the second one is my favourite Gibson. The first guitar is Taylor GS mini mohagony which I didn't much care about but still it has a better amplified sound. What an irony.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Monsum

Finally after years of searching, I purchased a guitar which every time I play I know it's the one, with great tone and excellent playability - my Gibson Hummingbird TV. As many of you I wanted it to sound natural amplified. Again, years of experimenting with different pickups and equipment in previous guitars and I decided to install K&K pure mini in it. Bought the best (by the word of many) preamp - the Red Eye. And cut the long story short, I'm not very happy with what I get out of Hummingbird/K&K/Red Eye combination. I'm aware that each of these 'ingredients' separately is one of the best in its class but I still feel like I've failed...(I'm not giving up BTW)

So here an audio clip of my two guitars (one of them is the Gibson, I'm not disclosing yet which one it is), both have K&K pickups, going through the Red Eye preamp (set flat) straight into an audio interface. No precessing applied other than normalization.

Do you think it's a good pickup sound (and I should just stop moaning and being paranoid about it)? Which guitar do you prefer (which do you think is the Gibson)?
What should I try next to improve the sound? I'm only interested in pickups sound good when (hard) strummed.

The first recording sounds good! The second one doesn't.

[Enchilada Jones]

Originally Posted by HHP

The second sample sounded more quacky to me while the first was a warmer and, to me, more natural sound.

+1 for number 1 for the same reason

[jricc]

The first one is very natural and I dig it.
The second example sounds like the pickup direct to a board or amp, no processing whatsoever.

[martingitdave]

The first one sounds good and totally usable. The second is less than ideal. Recognizing you just spent good money on the RedEye, which is a very good analog preamp, you may need to go the digital route if you want a better end product. To date, the Tonedexter is the "king of the hill" in this regard. Some have success with the Aura pedal and the K&K. I am using the Zoom AC-2 and the K&K. All of these are doing digital processing. Perhaps you can take your guitar to a local music store and demo the Fishman and Zoom pedals. Or, bite the bullet and get the Tonedexter. I'm not sure you can improve that second sample without substantial EQ or processing.

[rokdog49]

I liked the first better. If you are playing through a good amp you certainly can tweak the EQ to give you better results with the Gibby.
If you are playing through a system, as always, I highly recommend the Fishman Platinum Pro EQ/DI.
I can't figure why this product doesn't get more play on the AGF. I have five different pick up systems of all types in my five different guitars and I can make any one of them sound very natural through a PA with it.

[JayBee1404]

The first recording sounds great, the second one sounds pretty bad. I'd be very happy with the first sound.