Rigs for Gigging with Multiple Acoustic Instruments

[midwinter]

Hi all.

If all goes well, in a few months, I'll be gigging with a little acoustic group in which I'll be playing acoustic guitar, mandolin, and banjo. All instruments have good pickups (Baggs, Baggs, JJB).

I'm new to gigging with multiple instruments, so I would appreciate any advice folks have about dealing with the signals. I have ParaDIs for my guitar and the mandolin. I'm happy to pick one up for the banjo, too.

How do y'all do this? Sub-mix out to the board and stick a tuner on the main out to the board?

[joeguam]

I did about 125 gigs last year with 3 instruments and the Boomerang III looper. I use the Boss LS-2 in "A -> B -> Bypass" mode to switch between the 3 instruments. An instrument is never more than two stomps away and I never play more than one instrument at a time. You should only need one DI to send a balanced signal to the mixer. In my case because I gig solo, I have a small Yamaha MG06X mixer on my pedalboard so I just run my main out to the PA from there and don't use a DI.
Probably the most important pedals on my board are the EQ pedals for each instrument. I use a guitar, an uke and a drum kit, so you can imagine the EQ for each are very different. I run each instrument into it's own Boss GE-7, then into the LS-2. This way, I can EQ each signal properly before it hits the LS-2 switcher and then send everything out of the LS-2 down the effects chain and looper.

Let me know if you have questions, I'll take a picture of my pedalboard at my next gig if you want to see a picture.

[midwinter]

Ooh, a picture of your rig would be great! Thanks.

[joeguam]

My next gig is tomorrow, I'll snap a picture then, but here's an older shot when I had the crappy Mackie Mix5 mixer. It was horrible and added so much noise in my chain.



You can see the two GE-7's on the top row, they are the separate EQ for guitar/uke. The LS-2 is on the bottom left so it's easy to find/stomp. The drum kit instrument does not have a GE-7 because it has it's own built in EQ. The effects loop starts on the top row from the tuner, wah, then delay. That all feeds into the Boom III and then into the vocal harmony pedal.

[philjs]

I plug in through a Korg Pitchblack+ (a combo strobe tuner and A/B switch) when using two instruments (usually either guitar and baritone for solo gigs or guitar and bouzar for trio gigs). For concert gigs where I need all three, I add a Radial Bigshot I/O, plug the bouzar and baritone into that and run the output to the B channel of the Pitchblack+ with my main guitar in the A channel.

FYI, the output of the tuner goes to a Baggs Venue (with mini HOF reverb and Corona chorus in the effects loop) as my preamp for all three (I have identical pickups, Schatten HFN passives, in all three instruments). I (very) rarely have to adjust the preamp settings...

Phil

[midwinter]

Thanks, all.

I should clarify that I'm not much of a gear-head anymore; these days, I don't use any effects at all and rely on the ParaDI for any EQing and preamp needs. My worry is that these three instruments will need significantly different kinds of EQ/notching (e.g. my guitar is mostly flat, my mandolin has cuts on the high and high mids), and so I don't think I can come out of a mixer into a single ParaDI.

I'm kind of imagining a ParaDI for each into a small mixer (like the little Behringer or Peavey ones with four XLR inputs) and then out to the house. But then I'm wondering about muting the other, unused instruments.

Am I just envisioning this all wrong? Would it be better to just have an A/B/Y into a tuner and then into a small mixer and try to do any EQing there?

[andrewt]

This is something I've been thinking about as well. What I've been doing if I have 3 instruments or less is use the Boss LS2 as mentioned before into my acoustic amp. I had one gig where I had 4 instruments and I plugged them all into a small mixer.

I've been thinking about getting a Zoom A3 and creating patches for each instrument, which would solve the EQ problem. I don't use any effects, so I could have 2 EQs per instrument if I wanted, or maybe an EQ and compressor.

[cloudyafternoon]

http://www.sourceaudio.net/products/...ammable_eq.php

I haven't personally tried it, but this with a Boss LS-2 in front of it could make for a pretty streamlined little rig.

[joeguam]

Originally Posted by midwinter

Thanks, all.



I should clarify that I'm not much of a gear-head anymore; these days, I don't use any effects at all and rely on the ParaDI for any EQing and preamp needs. My worry is that these three instruments will need significantly different kinds of EQ/notching (e.g. my guitar is mostly flat, my mandolin has cuts on the high and high mids), and so I don't think I can come out of a mixer into a single ParaDI.



I'm kind of imagining a ParaDI for each into a small mixer (like the little Behringer or Peavey ones with four XLR inputs) and then out to the house. But then I'm wondering about muting the other, unused instruments.



Am I just envisioning this all wrong? Would it be better to just have an A/B/Y into a tuner and then into a small mixer and try to do any EQing there?

DI boxes are used to send signals on long runs. If you're just going right into your mixer, makes no sense. If you're only sending one signal at a time (one instrument) you don't need a mixer. A mixer's main purpose is to blend multiple signals.

Use a proper EQ device and not the combined EQ/DI like the ParaEQ.

[jseth]

Although a bit pricey, the Bose T1 Tone Generator / Mixer is an incredible little piece of gear... it is FAR MORE than just a "expensive little mixer"... among other things, each of the channels (there are 3 XLR/1/4" inputs and two line-level inputs) has, independent from the main output:

adjustable gain / adjustable 3 band eq / adjustable parametric eq / half-dozen (or so) reverbs / delays / compressor / noise gate / flanger, chorus, etc...

Along with these, each channel has it's own selection of preset patches, called Tonematch presets... these get you "close" to the instrument or mic you're using, and let you tweak things from there... for instance, I use a Shure Beta 58A microphone, and using that Tonematch preset means I hardly need to adjust any eq for the mic... there are probably more than one hundred of those presets, and new ones are downloadable via the internet to this unit...

There are multiple outputs, of course, as well as a DI out if you need it... although the T1 is designed to be used with the Bose L1 Model II PA (which I would heartily recommend you audition - they are phenomenal!), the T1 can be used with any system. One of our members, Larry Pattis, is a touring fingerstyle player/composer, and he frequently just uses his T1 as a "front-end", regardless of what PA system the venue may have...

Seems like ONE of these T1 units would handle all you have to amplify... each channel has a mute, fx mute, vol control... plus, once you have everything dialed in the way you want, you can save the "scene", name it and call it back up anytime you want...

Best little gizmo/mixer I have ever used or seen... 6" x 8" x 3"...

[Irish Pennant]

I'm not as experienced as many here but what I do have is a Zed 10fx and a passive volume pedal. When I switch instruments I volume down with the pedal, unplug one instrument then plug in the other. If I was to have three different instruments, I would buy two more volume pedals and put each instrument on their own channel with their own unique equalizing. I'd even put a big letter "G" on the guitar pedal, "B" on the banjo pedal and "M" on the mandolin pedal, the older I get the harder it is to see. The volume pedal would be quiet for the instruments that's not being played. I don't know how to get any simpler.


EDIT: I just looked at the "Bose T1 Tone Generator" from the above post. It looks good and does almost everything that I wrote and then some. Nice little unit.

[MikeBmusic]

The simplest solution - a small mixer with EQ/volume adjustable for each channel-instrument, main out to a pedal tuner (with mute) and out from that to the main mixer - with a DI box if needed for long runs. No EQ needed on the DI box.
If you use an on-stage amp for personal monitor, you can come out of the mixer's monitor output to it so you can set the volume differently than the main output.

[joeguam]

Originally Posted by Irish Pennant

I'm not as experienced as many here but what I do have is a Zed 10fx and a passive volume pedal. When I switch instruments I volume down with the pedal, unplug one instrument then plug in the other. If I was to have three different instruments, I would buy two more volume pedals and put each instrument on their own channel with their own unique equalizing. I'd even put a big letter "G" on the guitar pedal, "B" on the banjo pedal and "M" on the mandolin pedal, the older I get the harder it is to see. The volume pedal would be quiet for the instruments that's not being played. I don't know how to get any simpler.


EDIT: I just looked at the "Bose T1 Tone Generator" from the above post. It looks good and does almost everything that I wrote and then some. Nice little unit.

Why would you spend all that money for 3 volume pedals and a mixer if you were only going to play one instrument at a time? This is exactly why the ABY or ABC/Y pedals were invented - so you could mute all other channels and engage only one channel in one stomp. With your suggestion, you would always need two stomps, one to mute the current instrument, and the 2nd volume-up the next instrument.

Mixers are used to allow multiple signals to be played simultaneously into one PA. If you don't have this need, you should use a line switcher of some sort.

Maybe the OP should clarify whether or not the instruments will be simultaneously played?

[MikeBmusic]

Originally Posted by joeguam

Maybe the OP should clarify whether or not the instruments will be simultaneously played?

I want to see him play acoustic guitar, mandolin, and banjo all at the same time! (read original post)

[joeguam]

Edited, no need to reproduce negativity. My bad MikeB, carry on.