Using a Guitar preamp as Mixer (Radial PZ-Pro 2-ch, sunn MS-2, Felix, Stanley Clark

[meb]

I am considering a 2 channel guitar preamp to a) allow me to use 2
different guitars at bigger venues, and b)to use as a 'mixer' for small,
cramped spaces....i.e use the Mic input to control vocal EQ and volume.

Some of these now have regular mic inputs, i.e. Radial PZ-Pro 2-ch, Grace Felix, sunnaudio MS-2, EBS Stanley Clarke. etc. I assume all of them will
be fine with acoustic guitars, but I am wondering about the caliber of
the vocals with this type unit. Is there a reason the vocal would be
better or worse than using a plain small analog mixer like a Mackie, Yamaha, A&H etc? Is anyone actually doing this?

Thanks.

[douglasfan1]

Originally Posted by meb

I am considering a 2 channel guitar preamp to a) allow me to use 2
different guitars at bigger venues, and b)to use as a 'mixer' for small,
cramped spaces....i.e use the Mic input to control vocal EQ and volume.

Some of these now have regular mic inputs, i.e. Radial PZ-Pro 2-ch, Grace Felix, sunnaudio MS-2, EBS Stanley Clarke. etc. I assume all of them will
be fine with acoustic guitars, but I am wondering about the caliber of
the vocals with this type unit. Is there a reason the vocal would be
better or worse than using a plain small analog mixer like a Mackie, Yamaha, A&H etc? Is anyone actually doing this?

Thanks.

The first question to ask "is 2 channel really sufficient?"
Well, more is always better. For that price range, you can have a look for multi-channel preamp like Bose 4Ts too. Don't limit yourself too early.

If 2 channel preamp is what you need. I do think Grace Felix is the best. Now they have new version for Felix, you can even adjust the phase difference of a channel (I forget channel 1 or channel 2, not just in-phase or out of phase, but variable adjustment!).

You can also consider something more economic like Headway - EDB-2 H.E.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by meb

I am considering a 2 channel guitar preamp to a) allow me to use 2 different guitars at bigger venues, and b)to use as a 'mixer' for small, cramped spaces....i.e use the Mic input to control vocal EQ and volume.

Some of these now have regular mic inputs, i.e. Radial PZ-Pro 2-ch, Grace Felix, sunnaudio MS-2, EBS Stanley Clarke. etc. I assume all of them will
be fine with acoustic guitars, but I am wondering about the caliber of
the vocals with this type unit. Is there a reason the vocal would be
better or worse than using a plain small analog mixer like a Mackie, Yamaha, A&H etc? Is anyone actually doing this?

Thanks.

Hi meb
I've done that with my Raven PMB preamps, and my DTAR Solstice to gang instruments when in small venues. The limitation of such devices is they overall tonal adjustment is often oriented to instruments, not vocals.

I much prefer using a PA oriented board to mix instruments into than a guitar oriented preamp to mix vocals through. The challenge is finding a high quality small PA mixer.

But there is no reason (other than these are expensive) a Grace Felix would not perform the basic functions you are asking for.

[Cuki79]

what about the EAE stompmix 4?

[Brent Nelson]

This is what I generally use, and it a fantastic little mixer that sounds terrific.

Originally Posted by Cuki79

what about the EAE stompmix 4?

[Oregon Donor]

I have a Felix and I've been doing this for over a year and a half now. I had originally intended to use it to graduate into a dual-source system but realized that I wanted a smaller footprint overall.

As a singer-songwriter who plays solo 99% of the time, I'm basically a two-source setup. Having only two channels and an unambiguous way of routing them was to my advantage. The blend control is essentially your ordinary channel faders condensed into one knob. There's plenty of gain on tap for each input and a nice separation between the vocals and guitar. The resulting sound is pristine and clear--exactly what you'd expect from Grace Design. I prefer a drier sound that relies more on room resonance than effects, but I do use a reverb pedal through the effects loop when I'm outside to compensate for not having walls.

In other words, it's perfectly viable and I'm really happy with the clarity and fidelity that it lends to my sound. The only real outlier is the cost. There are certainly cheaper ways to solve the amplification problem, but for my situation it's simple, elegant, and the best quality I could ask for.

[sunnaudio]

Originally Posted by meb

I am considering a 2 channel guitar preamp to a) allow me to use 2
different guitars at bigger venues, and b)to use as a 'mixer' for small,
cramped spaces....i.e use the Mic input to control vocal EQ and volume.

Some of these now have regular mic inputs, i.e. Radial PZ-Pro 2-ch, Grace Felix, sunnaudio MS-2, EBS Stanley Clarke. etc. I assume all of them will
be fine with acoustic guitars, but I am wondering about the caliber of
the vocals with this type unit. Is there a reason the vocal would be
better or worse than using a plain small analog mixer like a Mackie, Yamaha, A&H etc? Is anyone actually doing this?

Thanks.

Hi Meb, the MS-2 mic input is only for condenser type mics, such as the headset style. Optimally a cardioid mic.

[meb]

Thanks to all for the input. I guess I am/was trying to justify a new toy by
getting 2 uses from it when my Bose T1 or Mackie ProFX10v3 would
do a better job if I need a 'mixer function'.

With my passive Sunrise & BlackStack pickups, I am pretty much forced
to use a preamp to get 'gain' or XLR outputs, and was thinking this may be a reasonable way to drop
a box (mixer) from my chain by plugging in my mic. And yes, Cuki79,
I have looked hard at the Stompmix 4 & 6. I much prefer analog
controls plus the 4 has no gain or xlr outputs. And my T1 covers
the Stompmix 6 functions except the battery option.

I have been using the 'gainless' sunnaudio Stage DI via XLR to my mixer
with my Pedalboard (Boost +Harmony + Looper) in the efx loop. I
was looking at options to use the PB for 2 guitars. I guess I will focus
more on that and not worry about the mixer option.

Sorry for the rambling....

[Foss38]

Originally Posted by meb

I am considering a 2 channel guitar preamp to a) allow me to use 2
different guitars at bigger venues, and b)to use as a 'mixer' for small,
cramped spaces....i.e use the Mic input to control vocal EQ and volume.

Some of these now have regular mic inputs, i.e. Radial PZ-Pro 2-ch, Grace Felix, sunnaudio MS-2, EBS Stanley Clarke. etc. I assume all of them will
be fine with acoustic guitars, but I am wondering about the caliber of
the vocals with this type unit. Is there a reason the vocal would be
better or worse than using a plain small analog mixer like a Mackie, Yamaha, A&H etc? Is anyone actually doing this?

Thanks.

Have you considered a TC Helicon Voicelive3?

[meb]

Originally Posted by Oregon Donor

I have a Felix and I've been doing this for over a year and a half now. I had originally intended to use it to graduate into a dual-source system but realized that I wanted a smaller footprint overall.

As a singer-songwriter who plays solo 99% of the time, I'm basically a two-source setup. Having only two channels and an unambiguous way of routing them was to my advantage. The blend control is essentially your ordinary channel faders condensed into one knob. There's plenty of gain on tap for each input and a nice separation between the vocals and guitar. The resulting sound is pristine and clear--exactly what you'd expect from Grace Design. I prefer a drier sound that relies more on room resonance than effects, but I do use a reverb pedal through the effects loop when I'm outside to compensate for not having walls.

In other words, it's perfectly viable and I'm really happy with the clarity and fidelity that it lends to my sound. The only real outlier is the cost. There are certainly cheaper ways to solve the amplification problem, but for my situation it's simple, elegant, and the best quality I could ask for.

It looks like you have a wonderful solution. The Felix has all the features
that interest me. I tried the Alix , but I was not as fond of that
drier sound you speak about and sent the unit back. I was hoping
the PZ-Pro 2-ch would be a cheaper Felix that appealed more to my
sonic preferences. I have even wondered if the Felix 2 may be less
dry than the original and worth another try. But, as you mentioned, that
is a very expensive solution if you only use it part time.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by meb

It looks like you have a wonderful solution. The Felix has all the features
that interest me. I tried the Alix , but I was not as fond of that
drier sound you speak about and sent the unit back. I was hoping
the PZ-Pro 2-ch would be a cheaper Felix that appealed more to my
sonic preferences. I have even wondered if the Felix 2 may be less
dry than the original and worth another try. But, as you mentioned, that
is a very expensive solution if you only use it part time.

Hmm, I think the comment about "dry" was just that he didn't use much reverb. I'm not sure how a preamp with no built-in reverb can be "dry" or "wet". I'm guessing you mean "accurate" or "pristine" or "clean". Felix is a studio-grade preamp. It passes your pickup sound thru clean and unaltered. If your pickup sounds bad, it will accurately pass that thru (tho with the ability to EQ). It sounds like you're hoping for something to color the sound? I don't think Felix 2 is going to compromise the pure audio quality that is the main reason people get something like Felix. There are preamps that deliberately color your sound, if that's what you're looking for.

[Oregon Donor]

To clarify--the natural, transparent character of the Felix is such that I don't find effects necessary; I meant dry in the sense of 'as-it-is' and not 'dry' in the tonal sense. The Felix is sensitive enough to impart the resonance of whatever room you're in through your inputs and out of the speaker; it's an organic, 'bloom-y' kind of sound. I'll try to remember to take a short video to make what I'm saying a little more concrete, but it's basically the 'studio-quality' aspect of the preamp in action, as Doug said.

I do use reverb through the effects loop when I'm playing outside--just a cheap little Biyang pedal, and it works great.

[calvanesebob]

Have you checked this out?

https://www.guitarcenter.com/Boss/VE...fects-Pedal.gc

May be something worth a look.

[meb]

Originally Posted by calvanesebob

Have you checked this out?

https://www.guitarcenter.com/Boss/VE...fects-Pedal.gc

May be something worth a look.

The VE-8 looked promising, and I bought & used one for a while. I
still needed a preamp with gain in front of it for my passive pu. The
harmonies were fine, but I disliked the deep dive for many settings
plus I wanted a more user friendly looper. I eventually moved to a
a Harmony Singer 2, Boss RC-500 and TC Spark mini. I really wanted to
like the VE-8, but.......

Thanks for the suggestion.

[PANDAPANDELO]

I don't use one (yet), but I'll sure plug my HD28 equipped with K&K Trinity into a Felix2. The acoustic signal will be blended with the K&K little preamp before it gets into the Felix, and the vocal microphone will go to Felix2 as well. I'll probably use some sort of reverb with it (I'm looking into the Free The Tone Reverb), and I'm really done with my live vocal rig. Simple and effective!